I have a difficult time believing that a union is capable of solving the world's economic problems. I'm all for unions, jeez, I rather not work too hard either, but I just don't think they'll be much help.

Not to worry Bob Smith, the CEP is not trying to solve any problems. They have produced a list of demands of the government, but they don't have any ideas or solutions of their own. I am glad that my MP, Jay Hill, refused to acknowledge their sit-in.

As a forest worker in a small, BC resource town, I too am concerned about the state of the forest industry. However demanding government bails out an industry that currently produces products that are not in demand is ridiculous. The focus needs to be providing support and opportunities for displaced workers (government's role) and ensuring that facilities are as efficient and as cost competitive as possible when the markets come back (union's and company's role).

You dont see presseman, reporters, editors, delivery drivers storming the news offices everytinme a daily newsppaer goes down, RESULTING IN LOSS OF JOBS. I suggest everyone who comes to this blog read NEWSPAPERDEATHWATCH.com It shows all the recent PERMENENT clsoing of large daily newspapers, or goint to internet only , non print format. Last week two papers announced that they would no onger print. One in Tucson and one in Baltimore. Over 400 people are out of work. Those two papers consumed 18,000/mt of newsprint per month. Those tons are never coming back. Shutdown of newsprint mills and machines in BOTH countries will and has to happen. Nobody likes it, but it is reality. Lumber will come back, as will pulp, and specialty grades too..but newsprint you can stick a fork into.. The fat lady is a singin' The government of Canada can best help the workers by giving then free education to learn another trade. I do believe that all pension and severenvce that is owed should be completly paid, however.

If you think that "Specialty Papers" will come back when the economy turns around,then why not give a company like Abi-bow (largest newsprint producer) a chance (by gov. bailout $$) to move from Newsprint to Specialty paper? IE:Retooling machinery!

Kind of like GM going from the Hummer to more Hybrid vehicles with the help of the government(s)bailout billions!IE:Retooling machinery!

Sheesh some of you posters DO need to go back for retraining...like starting with Business 101!

Ex

I have worked in the forest industry most of my life both union and non-union jobs.
The CEP and other unions are hurting due to the membership drop and are trying to gain some momentum.
They need help like the industry does.
it is a tough slug out there, and we have not hit bottom yet.
We can only hope things turn around soon.

Excuse Me poster, you are ignoarant.Its alraedy been done!~ Calhoun, Kousa Pines, Fort Francis, Iriquois falls,, and im elavingf out many. They have switchecd from news to groundwood hi brites, groundwood coated paper, novel news, hi bulk news, etc. Bowater did this extensively 2 to 3 yaers before Ab bought them. And specalities are never coming back to what they were, they just are declining at a slower rate than newsprint. Furthermore export news is all but dead. Cornerbrook, Mersey, Stephensvile, even Port hawksbury, will all have to be permently closed like windsor great falls. Then the reamining mills that make the cut will have enough orders to stay open and save the jobs there. Better to amputate than liquidate.

One more thing to EXCUSE ME....Chrsyler and Gm have both (one by court order, one by choice) closed immediatly 1/3 of their dealerships here in the US. Lots of jobs lost, lots of bitching and moaning. Guess what...the ones left open were BUSY and have had great sales since. Customers can no longer see 5 dodge dealers in the same area and beat one up against another for price. Getr it now genius econ 101 major?? Abi Bow needs to close some so the others can raise prices and actually make money. FYI Abitibi lost "only" 216 million the 1st q of 2009. You are an uninformed sheep like folower idiot. Go to Alberta and pick oil from the sand why dont you.

I find it funny when people of all walks of life express themselves with little respect for each other. It is not the CEP members that pushed the paper industry to where it is today. They are hard working people just like you. What I have a problem with is the lack of concern expressed for someone who has spent his/her entire life working for a company, and that at the end of the day, he or she will not have a means of living in dignity. I believe we all should aspire to making sure we treat each other with that. I've been a UP&PW, CPU, and now CEP member. I've been an executive officer for 20 years and I've never went to the table to bankrupt the business that feed me. I understand there needs to be balance. Funny how some don't or won't choose to understand that.

I wish you all a good evening, hold your families tight. It may be you that wakes up tomorrow with no work and no means of supporting them.

How can an elected official of our government just descide not to "acknowledge" us or "address our concerns"? Too bad we don't have the same right to say, the heck with you, you won't listen, we won't pay our taxes. You all can just go on the dole like the rest of us, because sooner or later there won't be enough tax dollars to pay your wages, or our dole. At a time when we as Canadians need to be putting our heads together, work WITH each other, colaborate, and cooperate, to make a go of it, I hear the "every man for himself" mentality spreading like wildfire. If this is the way our government is thinking, the rest of us are doomed. At least I can PROUDLY say that I didn't vote for this government that won't listen to the common, hard working man. Something is definately wrong, when the citizens of our country feel that the only way they will be heard is by using these extreme attention-getting measures. We, the people of Canada are the ones who choose the government. If they don't have time for us, we can do something about that, even from the bread lines.

First off Jimmy..."Think quickly,type slowly"! ;-)
....No kidding supply has to be taken out of the equation for newsprint;it's the lowest form of medium out there,besides maybe "smoke signals or stone tablets"! :)

Do you think maybe the Abi-bow bankruptcy procedings and contract negotiations in Canada might be a reason why there are NOT more permanent mill closures right now?And which ones will shut down...the ones that are located where 100 million loans were given(Que),"kick back mills" from using Alternative fuel,ie:diesel added to B.Liquor (USA) or the least efficient ones??..mmmm..decisions,decisions!

As for your comment about telling "Excuse me" to go to Alberta to pick oil from the sand....YOU should be thankful that Canadians do that;otherwise you'd be paying $10/gallon at the pump!

BTW...Jimmy maybe you should try "relaxing by the pool"....you seem a little stressed these days!

Relaxing

Dear Us Jimmy

Funny how you pick the mills from the Maritimes to "amputate". Did you know the Mersey mill has no debt, not bankrupt and owned by the Post ? Did you know that the Mersey Mill also makes other grades besides newsprint ?
You must be a Yank or an Upper Canadien. Yes some mills have to shut down, a million or more ton of the market. It is reality. But politics and geography should'nt dictate what mills go down, and the Union must insure that those who do close have their pensions protected.

Dear Mackman
What resource is in your town, weed ? Cause your clearly smoking too much. The Unions have been doing their best at making sure the mills are cost productive for the last 5 years. The Companys however have been doing their best to detroy and eat their own. Get your head out of the sand and smoke another fatty.

Dear Relalaxing,,, I am very happy that they are getting oil out of the Alberta sands. Why do you ask?? That means oil and commodaties are up which menas us dollar is down vs Looney. Want todays closing price??? .8947 . UP frpm .79 just three wweeks ago. Without the cheap dollar, many of the inefficient mills will be driven out, which is long over due. Ill give you a list wise guy, and you tell me what you think: catalyst 1 mill(port alberni) , white birch 2 mills( Soucy , Rivier de loupe), tembec 1 mill(kaupiskasing), Kruger 2 mills (cornerbrook, three rivers), Howe Sound 1 mill, Alberta -Whitecourt, Abi-bow 6 mills ( thorold, mersey, thundar bay, konagami, beupre,koussa pines, alabama river). 1.5 million tons of news need to come out and .5 million specalities need to go just to catch up.

US Jimmy...you so smart..me love you long time...

As far as your list goes I can only comment on AbiBow mills.
Thorold - totaly recycles, ergo will survive
Mersey - only half owned by Abitibi and very viable. 51% of the shares will be sold and will survive
T-Bay - agreed, its almost over. If Bowater escapes chapter 11 they have a small chance
Kongami- never heard of it
Beaupre - has a deal with the NY Times. It should survive ahead of most mills in Que except Bai Comaue
Cosa Pines - just ba golf course
Alb River - already down

Jimmy & Abibow worker:

Have to agree with the list that Abi-bow worker states with one exception...the TBay mill.

I understand it has 2 newsprint machines that run quite efficiently; one being the #1 newsprint machine in the Abi-bow fleet for runability but don't quote me.

Also,the TBay mill has a Kraft mill and if you've read any articles on who will survive in the newsprint business,it's the mills that are profitable,efficient,can make different grades on the fly AND that have a Kraft mill as well.I believe the list was Coosa Pines,Catawba,Calhoune,FF and TBay to name a few.

The biggest problem with TBay is it's electricity cost.Don't be surprised that when/if ABH comes out of BK protection the provincial government of Ont. comes to the financial aid of this mill regarding "green energy" in the form of helping out on a bio-mass turbine.

In a "true" capitalistic business world (without the politics)the old and in-efficient machines MUST be shut down,so that,yes,the the strong survive,pick up new orders and get capital to invest in new machinery/ products to serve the consumer.

Time will tell and it's coming sooner than later.

Pondering

Gotta love some of the humor here. If I join a union, I won't have to work too hard. Sounds great to me. :) I feel for the forestry worker, but reality is reality. Depressed market conditions that will only worsen with time are the factor that I'm sure the government is looking at. How can you support a dying industry. And if you do support it, where do you put the funds. They are in a no win situation. Someone mentioned a mill had a contract with the New York Times and this would keep them going. NYT sales have declined over 20% in the past six months alone. All big city paper sales are on the decline with most seeing double digit declines the last 180 days. The new, younger generation does not buy the newspaper..it's a fact. They are internet born and bred. My hope is that all the workers who did put in all these years for profit hungry companies get there deserved severances and pensions. It's a dam shame if they don't.

The only focus that the Union(CEP) should have right now is protecting the pensions and severence of those mills that must close. Asking the Gov't and tax paying citizens to pay for a band-aid is a stupid thing. The CEP Executive should stop worrying about future dues and start giving back to those who have paid their dues for decades. Take of the suits boys and roll up your sleeves. Remember where you came from.

Dear Ike

Thank-you for your insightful comments. To answer your question, the small BC town I live in has 4 sawmills, 1 kraft pulpmill, and one TMP/Newsprint mill. They are all idled.

Maybe where you live the unions are a meaningful part of making things better. It is typically not the case here. While salaried staff and contractors have absorbed wage and benefit cutbacks over the past few years, hourly staff here have demanded their annual raises, cost of living adjustments, and silly perks. All-good until the mills finally could not do it anymore and all shutdown. We are now at about 90% unemployment.

On the bright side, an example of what can happen when all of the players work together for a solution: One sawmill will be restarting this summer because:
1) Government is making a small reduction to taxes.
2) The company was able to shift some production of (slightly) higher value product to the mill.
3) The union (actually CEP in this case) agreed to some concessions.

Good things can happen if everyone becomes part of the solution!

The biggest problem was that the unions thought they owned the mills. When the companies took back over ownership, and demanded concessions, some survived a little longer...but a lot still couldn't make it. The unions are just as much to blame as the companies for the mess we are in.

To visitor again: You are still a little daft in your thinking, most that received concessions went down anyway. How are the unions to blame for what is going on now? not sure what you mean with that statement, wages and benefits were consistent with the profits being made by this industry.

All unions should go away. Let simple supply and demand of labour take it's course.

The problem with unions is not that wages/benefits are too high. The problems are:
1) It's too difficult to get the desired workers in their desired positions (due to senority)
2) It's too difficult to get RID of the existing lame-duck employees -- usually very few, but provide the vast majority of the problems.

These two major issues result in sub-optimal performance, and while it's not the entire problem with the industry, it's certainly part of it.

Mackman ... just so things are clear, the union that made the concessions is PPWC not CEP...I don't know if it matter???

I believe the PPWC was brave in making the concession and getting back to work. Yes they gave up $5/hour ($10,000/year @ 2000 hours) BUT with the profit sharing agreement in place, they could be getting Quarterly payments of up to $10,000!! And the profit share benchmarks are well within historical profit levels....so let's see...give up $10,000 per year at a chance for $10,000 every 3 months??? I applaud them on their bravery and what I think could be the beginning of a new wage bargaining structure if there are more brave souls in the industry.

To uninformed Aaron

1. Most labour agreements have a 480 hr training clause, at which time if the individual is unable to perform the work he can be removed from the line of progression that his seniority entitled him to.

2. All labour agreements have disciplinary clauses that if the company would use them properly would give them the ability to if dismiss an individual for just cause.

Seems that us less than valuable people you call Unions, keep on having to correct your uninformed positions as posted.

Now if you would take the time to read what most labour agreement hold, you would stop blaming Union people for this industries mismanagement of their resources, which include people.

Dear "fed up"

Thank you for the wise and wonderful words of wisdom. I am sincere.

Some of these mill communities have had their Union Locals for almost a century. And despite all their faults those members are the ones that make the wheels go around. It has always been a give and take relationship.

No justice... No peace

To Rick Wyder...are you of the assumption the forest industry faltered overnite. This has been a long time in the making. Greed on both sides of the fence. My..what daft thoughts

Try running a mill solely on wood produced by union labour. Private contractors always get shafted to subsidize the union side of an operation. At least we don't have to worry about losing out on pensions and severence because in our world there is no such thing!

Thats right Timberjack. Unions are the people that brought the country pensions, severence and week-ends. Lets not forget health care, 8 hour days holidays, bereavement and a world of saftey legislation. Shame on those greedy union thugs, no wonder you perfered not to belong to such an outfit.

As far as shafting you to subidize the "union side", I really think your missing something here. The Company is the one using you, and its for the sake of profit. Trust me, they don't pass any savings they get from you onto the "union side".

We all rent out our time in labour and the price can always be negotiated. So don't blame someone else because your envious that someone else has something you don't have.

Good point Lumberjack.
I think it should be pointed out that these pensions are no more than "investments". As a contractor or non-union worker my investments, if I am lucky enough to have any (RRSP-mutuals, stocks, etc) are not protected. In fact, think of the millions that have been lost in recent months for the average Canadian. I think it is ridiculous to even suggests that the Canadian taxpayer should be bailing out these pension investments. Unfortunatley, these union workers have invested in the wrong company - ie Abitibi. Better to have put your money in a sock....

What it all comes down to is this. In life and in business one must live and operate within your means. You can't tell me that lucrative pensions and benifit-filled labour agreements fit this criteria. But you are right, Ike. It takes two to tango. Big business was wrong to have made the agreements in the first place. Unfortunately they probably had no choice given the labour disruptions they were forced into.

Timberjack, you hit the nail on the head when you said we must live within our means. Not sure if you meant individuals or not, but I do. I've worked in the forest industry a long time and I don't ever remember feeling secure with my job. If you work in this industry and go paycheck to paycheck you're walking a dangerous line.
Also I agree that unions did bring better working conditions to the workforce. Those conditions are now protected by labour laws. Unions are more of a pain now then anything. You union memebers who complain about the company executives who get bonuses. Have you ever checked out to see what your union leaders are bringing in?

K,
YES! we have!& do so every couple of years in our union at our national convention!, Have you?... because if you had, you would never have made this ambiguous statement trying to compare the two (union exec wages & benefits, as compared to CEO's wages & benefits!)& just for one example i would like to point out that the negotiating team on the union end of a contract negotiation does NOT get a signing bonus for the completion of the negotiations where as the ceo's involved in negotiations on the company end of things do get a signing bonus which usually comes really close to using up all of the capital that was saved by union members taking restructuring & cutbacks! So perhaps in your shoes unions are a pain, but in our shoes if it wern't for unions well we would now be living in company housing & buying groceries at the company store! I can tell you that at my establishment in the last 10 years we have downsized roughly 150 plus unionized jobs (some rightfully so due to capital projects).... the company has decided, after we have done this, that it is in the best interests of our company to HIRE more company people & create more company jobs & positions & at much higher wages than unionized members could ever think of earning! You tell me... why when our mill is down & taking production off of the market & all unionized members are sitting home & being forced onto employment insurance are 70 plus company people all reporting to work everyday & collecting their salaries when there is no reason for it? If these company people & these CEO's of this corporation were really serious about saving money & not wasting it , well they would right off the bat tell their representatives in each mill to also file for employment insurance benefits while the mill that they work at is down & not making production! But no! this is not what is happening... what is happening is these company folks are collecting their salaries like nothing is happening & it is the union (working folk) & the contractors who are taking the hit! I really have to ask... why are the contractors on this website blaming all of this on the actual workers at these plants?... Well my guess would be that non of the so called contractors who are posting here are actually contractors... guess we finally figured out what the company folks are doing with their time while they are working in a currently ideled mill... they are trolling this site & others & trying to gain support & to make the issues murkey to those who read this site but are not involved enough to question what you are saying! Well i will tell you... i do know what i am saying & if you do not believe me i would be more than happy to direct you to the securities & exchange commission (or to earnst & young in the matter of abitibibowater) or any other website that i know i can quote actual numbers & facts involving costs & wages & bonuses! Perhaps just perhaps K ... you should do a bit of research before you speak.... or perhaps it was lunch time & you plan on getting back to it when you return to work!

Axel:
What is it with union guys (and the NDP leadership for that matter) who think that unionized employees are the only people who "work"? Do you not think that a non-unionized contractor who busts his balls every day just to keep a rig on the road is a working man? Do you not think that the poor sap who is hanging ribbons in the bush in all kinds of weather and buggy conditions is not working for his pay? Do you not think that middle managers (many who happen to be in an office setting) who sacrifice many extra hours without overtime or compensating time are not working people?

Waco... u just put words into my mouth... I did not say that! What i stated was with regards to unionized workers & contractors all sitting in the exact same boat (because we are).... we are both considered non secured creditors & we are both the last in line to receive any monies outstanding! Never in a million years would i ever say that a contractor is afraid of work... to the contrary, most i have ever dealt with are nothing but professional & dependable! That being said... when i consider company people as "not working".. i have already stated why... its because for umpteen weeks of the year they are all in an idled mill supervising workers who are not there & overseeing production & shipments & paperwork that is not happening because everyone that they usually deal with or oversee is no longer working! & I would like to add that bundelling all unionized workers & all company people & all CEO'S etc etc together in their own little groups is completely wrong (in my opinion) ... there are good companies, good unions, & good CEO's..... it really depends on how they act & represent the people that they work for & the people that work for them!... so i am speaking of my personal eperience from dealing with the people in these capacities in my organization... yours may be different! But in my organization?... well i treat my dog better than we have been treated for the last 5 years or so....& as i said before... with regards to the CEO's of my corporation?... well i can send you to the sec & earnst & young to see how much these CEO's have appreciated our constant cutbacks in order to save this company!... They have appreciated it right to the bank...& you my contractor friend?... well you i will see standing next to me & behind Weaver , waiting to receive our non secured creditor payments... so you tell me... who is just in this?...

Axel and other Union workers

I am a prime contractor to a mill which is now shut down. I have several millions in equipment sitting in my yard ( still making payments on some).......no one will even buy it. I have no pension, no severance, and no UIC. We are told that if the mill starts up again we have to take a 10% cut or stay home. I wish these union people would stop their whining.

D,
I'm not whining my friend... I'm pissed off! & you should be as well! You ask me why i'm pissed off?...I'll tell you... i'm pissed that there is no legislation that protects you or me from these companies! I am pissed that employees & contractors are not considered secure creditors & are not at the top of the list to receive compensation when the business goes belly up, or is under creditor protection! I am pissed that we are argueing with each other instead of taking this fight where it belongs... into legislation that will protect the small town employee or contractor from these companies ever being able to do this again! So i do hear you... but i would much rather be having this conversation over the table to a judge or to the legislature that has the power to change this! I really do understand what you are dealing with & what you have to lose & i do understand what the mill worker is dealing with & has to lose & i really think that its time that we joined forces to put an end to this golden parachute that rewards companies & ceo's for failing in their jobs! D... i'm not against you!

Axel
Didn't mean to get personal - just venting.
You are right. There should be legislation so that contractors and workers are given secured creditor protection. Presently, if the mill I supply to goes bankrupt, I am still responsible to pay my subcontractors -even if I don't get paid from the mill. This can be upwards of several hundred thousand dollars by the time the shit hits the fan. I am at huge risk, and yet unable to establish secured creditor status with the company.

66% of all paper mills will be PERENENTLY closed within 18 months. Wise up and learn a trade , or get in your beat up trucks and head to Alberta oil fields.

Hey Vistor: You are still a dink, we have been working with the company since 03 on these issues, your comments though only appear to wish the workers misfortune for existing with reasonable wages and benefits that this industry can still afford. The companies hav e to support their "most important resourse" their workers, it is time their focus shifted so that they are not just looking after huge mutual fund aholes that don't care about people just proftits. You still sould like one of them.

Michelle... Hmmm 66% of all paper mills will be perementely closed eh?... I'm just curious where you think these mills will be located?... Will they be located in the united states?.. because due to their current black liquor subsidy,(freebie) these mills are currently making more profit on their government subsdies than they are on their product! I believe that it was posted here recently (& quickly removed due to copyright issues) that there is a company that is currently in the states that has lowered their price per ton to cost... i can't quite remember the figure but it was handy to $430.0 per ton)... this price was subsequently matched by the other players in the game on a local level that competes with this company... abitibibowater being one!.... Now... here comes my point!... i have heard countless arguements over why the canadian government can not provide any financial assistance to the forrestry industry in canada , in either the forms off a subsidy, or dip financing to abitibibowater( i use them because it is my company & the business i know!)... because if they do provide either of these options & help this industry (as they have with the auto sector) they will reopen the softwood lumber debate & in turn this will cause a challenge under NAFTA! ... Well as far as i am concerned, this black liquor subsidy in the states that has paid out millions & millions of dollars to these companies & has enabled these companies to lower their prices for their product to cost , is exactly that... a challenge under NAFTA! this process should have been challenged by the canadian govt just after its inception, but it has not...WHY?... this program is accomplishing one thing & one thing alone... it is forcing canadian companies out of business so that american companies (or mills) can stay in business & it is being financed by the us government... so i have to ask, why are we the canadians afraid of invoking a NAFTA challenge?.... jezzz we should have filed one years ago..... time for our government to get on the page... we are not looking for a handout... we are looking for representation & guidence & neither is forthcoming & for some unknown reason the Canadian Gov't is peacfully handing our forrestry industry over the border to the Americans..... WHY???!...

My My Mr Rick Wyder...you're blood pressure goes up and your typing and spelling goes for a shit. I don't think i can get you to agree that the current forestry situation has blame to be laid on both the unions and the companies. In the 70's and early 80's there was strike after strike after strike. This was because unions saw companies making huge profits and wanted a piece of the action. I ask you this...did they deserve it? ... anf if so... why? Just because a corporation does well..it's the investors who should benefit. They had the guts to start into business with thier own funds. The unions went further than trying to get just a fair share, they pushed it to the limit. The unions with increasing the wage scale up, pushed the cost to consumers up...duhhhhhh. Thus a snowball effect that has hit a brick wall now. Now what Mr Wyder...where do we go from here.

Hmmmm... what you say does have a ring of truth to it , i must admit... but we are talking when times were good & everyone wanted a piece of the pie... Now we are talking about creditor protection & what is happening?.. employees are non secured creditors & their pensions that they paid into for 30 plus years are no longer there... not even the contributions that they themselves put into the plans ... & they have lost their rights to severence payments that are in their collective agreements , the shareholders that you have spoken so highly about are sitting in line & waiting their cue in creditor protection & have not received dividends for well over a year (it was & is their responsibility to hire & fire the CEO's as would best suit the company... the shareholders have definately dropped the ball here!) & the CEOS"? well they have received bonuses & severence payments and stocks & options , that some decided to cash in before the company went into creditor protection... Hmmm... yep! I feel really bad for the CEO's ... they are definately on the losing end of an equal or perhaps its a 33.3% partnership!.... Oops sorry... they got their monies what am i talking about... & what they didn't receive?... well they get those monies before the employees or the contractors who have invested in these companies for years... if u don't believe me, well just go ask Weaver... He is currently in line for his outstanding 13.5 million severence payment.... & that is not including his pension or stocks or any other under the table dealings that he had with this company... I mean one of the very first things that this company did when they were under creditor protection was admit that of the 4 million severence that they have paid this man, that he owed them 1 million of it for a personal loan... Hmmmm... can we all get one of these?... I think not!...

Axel...don't get me wrong..i am on the working mans side all the way. I am a contractor and have taken the shaft deep. And i'm certainly not gay..lol. But..my only point that i really wanted to make is that there isn't just one side to blame here. My father is an ex abi-bow man and i hope he as well as all the others get what they bargained for in the union agreements. It's a bloody shame if they don't. Just hate seeing one side blaming the other when i believe there is fault in both.

Visitor... u are correct... for a time being both sides were definately at fault... but those times passed us by a few years ago, the problem is that the general public does not realise this , or even comprehend how much so the blue collar worker is dissed as compared to years ago! . I will tell you that in our mill we started this concession / renewal / CIP (continuos improvement) process in the early 1990's ... we have lost hundreds of unionized jobs ( & granted, as i stated before, some were just due to capital projects & all working together to make our mill viable)... this has however ceased to be the case.... i will just mention our very last "renewal plan"... the union folks sucked up a lot!! We lost over 70 jobs / job classifications / & in order to accomplish this we retired as many of these workers that were of age as possible.... but the company did not retire these ex employees... us!, the union members agreed to a percentage based formula which saw us (union folks) paying around 1.5 million out of our paychecks every pay period... & our company paying about .5 million in order to retire these workers! Yes! we paid to retire workers who had been in this companies employee for around 30 years, & we are still paying... But so be it... we were willing to do it, to keep our mill running, to keep the younger employees employed (our best interests & our companies)... so where did the problem come in you ask?... well the problem came in after we signed , sealed & delivered this package to the company... after they had these 70 or so jobs reduced they then decided that there was no longer any need to reduce any jobs on the company side of things.. none!... when a stink was raised about this in the media , our human resorces person quickly replied that the company did take cuts (in actual fact these went back 5 plus years , & included persons who passed away while in the companies employee etc... but no company classifications were ever made redundant).. thus ... we were burned!... we made the cuts & sucked it up & then it was thrown into our faces! & to make matters even worse?... well then we went into a year or more of them not even agreeing with the new agreement that was signed & pushing it even further... if you want these companies to save money?... well .. try telling them to treat their workers as humans & not numbers & to actually give to their employees what was agreed to & not force every single issue into arbitration ... cause the only ones who win at this are the lawyers!

You are correct... there is not just one side to blame when things go wrong... but i hate to tell you this, the side that is in the wrong at our company & many others actually... really is the Company ... i would love nothing other than to be able to agree to a contract & for the next 4 or 5 years not have to worry about it... but that , sadly is never the case, because as soon as it is signed, the company quickly forgets the meaning of clauses & off we go through the legal hoops again... you don't believe me?... well i will tell you that for the locals in our mill our arbitration win rate for about the last 5 years is around 90%! But you wouldn't know or understand that unless you were actually in our shoes i guess!

There!.... i needed a rant too!

Axel....Now you vented, and feel much better. I hope things turn out well for all you guys.
Sincerely

Visitor... thnx pal! ...& actually, i do! :) I have fingers crossed for all who are on the short end of the shaft... & there are far more of us on this end than the other!....