XML FeedsCEP has a pension idea for AbitibiBowater
Dec 3, 2009 | In Employment | 25 feedbacks »
The Communications, Energy and Paperworkers Union of Canada (CEP) has a proposal for AbitibiBowater to reduce some of its pension obligations.
The CEP would like the 12,000 active employees of AbitibiBowater to willingly give up some of their own entitlements under pension law to leave more money for the 17,000 retirees.
"Carving the retirees off ... pares a significant portion of the $1.3 billion of unfunded liabilities," David Coles, president of the CEP Union of Canada said. "So it immediately lessens Abitibi's debt load. It gives us then the opportunity with the active (employees) to deal with it at the bargaining table."
The company and CEP union broke off contract talks a month ago to give it time to pursue its pension proposals with Quebec, Ontario, New Brunswick and the federal government. Coles said meetings with actuaries are planned for next week to hammer out details.
"For the retirees, we are told ultraconservatively, that operating a pension plan on a going-concern basis will give a 15 (percentage point) boost.
"For example if it is a 75 per cent plan (with enough money to buy life annuities to pay benefits) it would move it to 90 per cent."
An outside pension lawyer and actuary warn, however, that the new pension plan would have to invest heavily in stocks if it hoped to pay some much higher benefits.
Read more:
Union plan aims to help Abitibi pensioners (The Star)
25 comments
Comment from: forklift [Member]
Well I cant wait to see the feed back on this new move from all active members.
03/12/09 @ 13:49
Comment from: just another member [Member] 
it is now confirmed...the cep national is willing to screw its working members..i always thot they were and now proof is in the pudding
03/12/09 @ 14:34
Comment from: just another member [Member]
i have a better idea..lets withold dues paid to the natinal and put that money towards our pension
03/12/09 @ 14:36
Comment from: compassn [Member]
I already gave up(if I remember correctly...0.4 %) of my vacation pay for a long period of time in order to sweeten the retirement packages of potential retirees as a retirement incentive and now I am going to be asked to give up more???
Am I the only guy with pockets here?
Here's some news....my pockets are empty!
Am I the only guy with pockets here?
Here's some news....my pockets are empty!
03/12/09 @ 16:50
Comment from: reduced [Member]
I have a better idea... lets decertify & join a different union.. @ the very least what we have now would be protected far more than letting AB & CEP... decide on how they are going to split up our wages , benefits & contributions that we have all made for years!...Seems like AB & CEP are definately in bed together... except we are all the party in the middle getting F---ed!!...
03/12/09 @ 18:23
Comment from: pulperpete [Member]
WOW ! Does Coles think before he speaks ? People in Nova Scotia know the answer. He almost single handedly wiped out Mersey's business with his mouth last August. Unbelievable !
The next question is just how stupid is the rank and file or the rest of the CEP membership ? Is it OK to let a few Abitibi Inc locals sell the farm in concessions that all the rest will have to eat ? No wonder he won't call a Eastern Caucus, and wants to bargain consessions before hand. Those members from the Bowater side, Gatineau/TBay?Mersey, must be going out of their minds, let alone everyone else that don't work for ABH.
The next question is just how stupid is the rank and file or the rest of the CEP membership ? Is it OK to let a few Abitibi Inc locals sell the farm in concessions that all the rest will have to eat ? No wonder he won't call a Eastern Caucus, and wants to bargain consessions before hand. Those members from the Bowater side, Gatineau/TBay?Mersey, must be going out of their minds, let alone everyone else that don't work for ABH.
03/12/09 @ 19:59
Comment from: forklift [Member]
I will let that company go under and take what eveer is left before I agree to that. The CEP must think we will agree to anything. What a bunch of assholes. Fuck you CEP and fuck AbibitiBowater if you think i'm going to give up whats coming to me.
Why should I give up something I worked for (34 years +) just to make the retire people happy. CEP give your fucking heads shake.
Why should I give up something I worked for (34 years +) just to make the retire people happy. CEP give your fucking heads shake.
03/12/09 @ 21:46
Comment from: mersey-slave [Member]
Coles:you are about as useful as an ejection seat in a helicopter, or a waterproof bath towel. You actually expect those of us who still have (in many cases) several years till retirement to bail out Abitibi's pension plan that they themselves blew to pieces? Who's side are you on? Here's an idea: Make abitibi pay for it, since they fucked it up, not us.
In closing Coles: staple your tongue to your forehead, because it is better to remain silent and be thought of as a fool; than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.
In closing Coles: staple your tongue to your forehead, because it is better to remain silent and be thought of as a fool; than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.
03/12/09 @ 22:44
Comment from: neebing [Member]
you knew this would happen .... it's called "let's play both ends against the middle". They want to quell the roar from 17,000 retirees and buy time with the current workers benefits with the hope that down the road things will improve, or at least the current union pimps are retired .... I'm assuming their pensions are safe.
Meanwhile the markets have roared back but the shortfall remains ..... kind of makes you wonder why they keep blaming the market meltdown for what is really incompetence all ways around!
Meanwhile the markets have roared back but the shortfall remains ..... kind of makes you wonder why they keep blaming the market meltdown for what is really incompetence all ways around!
04/12/09 @ 07:43
Comment from: shut er down [Member]
Is the union on fucking glue. Have they not taken enough. I remember when the mission mill was out and we paid them a grand a month to play frizbee out in front. Then when it was our turn and we were out we got squat from the suplemental fund as it was local issues.
What a joke this union is. A complete and utter joke. Time for them to go. Abitibi is the most corupt company in the region. And Blowater is right behind them. Union can kiss my ass. Ya hear me Marvin. KISS MY ASS.
What a joke this union is. A complete and utter joke. Time for them to go. Abitibi is the most corupt company in the region. And Blowater is right behind them. Union can kiss my ass. Ya hear me Marvin. KISS MY ASS.
04/12/09 @ 08:26
Comment from: pulperpete [Member]
The Union is not to blame, but rather its leadership or lack off. The membership needs to make a change. If they are sitting idley by while this kind of bullshit is taking place then the membership has no one to blame but themselves. Stand Up ! Call a caucus yourselves, don't wait for Coles and his band of merry men to do it. Cause guess what, their not. They don't want to face you.
The Locals of AbiitiBow should be the first in line. What the hell are you waiting for. The National has been screwing with you guys for almost 2 years. Dump Coles, Menard and their little lacky Wilson from your bargaining team. Tell AbitibiBow to eat shit and die. Go back to the Caucus and say "no mass". Pick another pattern setter or let the Bowater group do it.
Abitibi is dead and the only ones that want to save them are the National Union. The longer it takes, the more its going to hurt everybody else, and more time for Coles and crew to make more sacrifices on your behalf.
Is the CEP a Trade Union, or just another puppet to be used by big industry at their discretion ?
The Locals of AbiitiBow should be the first in line. What the hell are you waiting for. The National has been screwing with you guys for almost 2 years. Dump Coles, Menard and their little lacky Wilson from your bargaining team. Tell AbitibiBow to eat shit and die. Go back to the Caucus and say "no mass". Pick another pattern setter or let the Bowater group do it.
Abitibi is dead and the only ones that want to save them are the National Union. The longer it takes, the more its going to hurt everybody else, and more time for Coles and crew to make more sacrifices on your behalf.
Is the CEP a Trade Union, or just another puppet to be used by big industry at their discretion ?
04/12/09 @ 19:47
Comment from: reduced [Member]
Ditto to what Pulperpete just said!... Word for word! he hit it right on the mark! ... Soooo.....??!!!!...
04/12/09 @ 20:52
Comment from: hockeydad [Member]
Are people up on how the process works in negotiations? The AbitibiBowater caucus made up of all the elected local delegates off the floor from every CEP local in every mill has the final say on any and all changes to the collective agreement through consensus. This means 1 Local delegate can stand up and say no way and there is no deal and no concessions. Dave Coles and any elected regional VP's have a voice and NO SAY when it comes to any final decision regarding concessions or improvements to the active workers and there are clear rules in place on this issue. The President could come out in the media tommorrow and suggest anything he wants, but in the end the individual delegates from each mill have the final say and this has always been the case. After all of this, any deal that is struck HAS TO COME BACK TO THE MEMBERSHIP TO BE VOTED ON. I think people should be educated about how little power the president has in approving a final deal and maybe they will realize there is no point getting worked up over nothing.
04/12/09 @ 21:27
Comment from: reduced [Member]
Awww... No! ... sorry there hockey dad... but the way it works is that its a majority vote of those sitting equally at the table.. & considering that the majority are a bunch of underfunded & bankrupt quebec mills from the Abitibi side of this lovely merger ... well why on gods green earth would a mill that is not even under creditor protection even consider losing anything in order to make up the shortfall that was made by the Abitibi group?...& i am refering to any former Bowater mill here ( Gatineau. Thunder Bay or Mersey)... these 3 locations are far better off just saying NO now... & breaking away! All pension plans are seperate & are supposed to be solely funded on a per mill basis... not as a AB whole !!... There is & was a reason most of the east coast mills never voted to join the CEP to begin with! & we are seeing a very fine performance of it these last 3 years or so!... Time to get while the gettin is good!...Cause the CEP is & has turned into the C (Completely) E( enpowering) P ( Province of Quebec!)...
Ontario & Nova Scotia have been sold out Boys & girls... best fix this before its too late to do so!... & Did i say fuck you Coles?.If not?.. well assume it!
Ontario & Nova Scotia have been sold out Boys & girls... best fix this before its too late to do so!... & Did i say fuck you Coles?.If not?.. well assume it!
04/12/09 @ 21:56
Comment from: reduced [Member]
& yes ... after the vote in athe group bargening format it does go back to the membership to be ratified... but if not ratified?.. well then i guess u are shit out of luck cause the national union will not support you...& you are just along for the ride .. cause this is Group bargening... not every mill for itself! Its all about numbers & the numbers are in quebec & with the abitibi side & also with the ones who need the cash from the rest of us... so how do you think a vote will go?.. Don't need to be a rocket scientist to figure it out!...Gatineau... Thunder Bay & Mersey best look really close at their options... cause at the moment both sides are taking them away!.....
04/12/09 @ 22:01
Comment from: hockeydad [Member]
Sorry reduced, but bargaining is by CONSENSUS not voting at the bargaining table. AND OFFICERS HAVE NO SAY ONLY VOICE. If Ontario local delegates are against a proposal, bargaining is over no matter what Quebec says. In that case, the current deal stays in place until there is consensus which may never happen. As for pension plans, there almost a dozen separate plans within AbitibiBowater with different solvency rates that remain separate under the current situation or under the trust plan. The plans have never been totally mill specific only as Kenora and Fort for example have always been in the same plan and the funds in this plan cannot be moved outside that specific plan. Anyone that suggests Ontario and Nova Scotia can be bi-passed at the bargaining table has no clue what they're talking about and obviously has never been part of negotiations.
04/12/09 @ 22:10
Comment from: shut er down [Member]
So did the snakes get another extension?
Anyone know or hear?
Anyone know or hear?
05/12/09 @ 08:58
Comment from: shut er down [Member]
Ya gotta wonder, Now that the so called (idiot) mill manager submitted his resignation and fled. Looking more like brankruptsy is in the future. Because we have seen no restructuring efforts on the mills part. Big huge payout to company thieves is all I have seen. Thunder Byas not looking so good these days. Starting to look like this merger was nothing more then a way for upper management to take the money and run. And they seem to be doing it legally. Sad thing is it's our money too. Where's the courts now? Because they seem to be above the law. Bye, Bye Ricky. You were nothing more then an incompetent pain in the ass. So out of touch with the mill. Yet you managed to rob them as well as us blind.
Number 5 sits as I wait to get a call back, yet it's soon to be a peace of crap. We don't go in and turn it over every few weeks like we should. At this rate there will be nothing to go back to. Just four more years and I'm done.
I hope....................sigh!
Number 5 sits as I wait to get a call back, yet it's soon to be a peace of crap. We don't go in and turn it over every few weeks like we should. At this rate there will be nothing to go back to. Just four more years and I'm done.
I hope....................sigh!
06/12/09 @ 16:08
Comment from: eieiooowe [Member]
i don't understand why the cep is still negitating with abibow. take all the mills down at once & don't talk until that company is gone for good. They can't be trusted !
07/12/09 @ 05:51
Comment from: forklift [Member]
LOL
Thats like a doc. telling you that you have cancer in one leg and you say cut them both off.
Thats like a doc. telling you that you have cancer in one leg and you say cut them both off.
07/12/09 @ 09:14
Comment from: redwing [Member]
Coles must remember that CEP is not the only members of the plans. The 1972 Plan (Thunder Bay) has 5 Unions attached to it. I not being in CEP will be and have been talking to our working members and they will not be giving up any of their pension for the retires. If there is an pain to be felt it will be equal for all!
07/12/09 @ 16:16
Comment from: kraftpulper [Member]
God you guys are a bunch of belly achers! If it wasn't for the CEP retiree's most of you wouldn't be working at "Great Lakes"! If it wasn't your dad, uncle, grandfather or your SISTERS you would never of gotten the job your in or had because you were too retarded to finish high school and now you have nothing...no job... zero future outside of the "paper mill"! HAHAHAHA...you should've stayed in school like your parents told you to!! Oh well c'est la vie...(that means that's life in french). I'm still working in the kraftmill and lovin it!!
07/12/09 @ 18:58
Comment from: just another member [Member]
we let the junior guys work in the tbay kraft mill..your comment solidifies why we shouldnt have done that ..you better hope we dont have another vote
07/12/09 @ 19:36
Comment from: kraftpulper [Member]
Another vote...why it was ok for you all the first time. By the way it will be a good $$$ Christmas for most of the guys working in Thunder Bay. The company cannot even fill shifts without paying OVERTIME because of holidays and people off sick. So much for not working OT while members are layed off. Gotta luv the union! thanks for the extra $$$$$$$$$
08/12/09 @ 20:02
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