lmfao.....yet ANOTHER study....money well spent....NOT!!!!!!!!

I should become a consultant.....man, cash for life....30 + years in the industry should qualify me...lol

Good morning,

I laugh everytime the Ontario Government says it will study the issue - I am no longer in the employment of a paper/forest company - however I am now part of a new endangered specie, they are called forest industry employees - when I started in the paper industry in the mid eighties - there were 10 pulp and paper mills and numerous lumber mills in Northwestern Ontario - I think now you can count on one hand both and soon you won't need any hands to count. It is funny though when it is south of Sudbury things take on a whole new meaning when industries are in trouble - oh well like my dad told me many, many years ago - when you only have about 2 to 5% of the voting population why would they care. They don't need us to win elections - heck people in Southern Ontario don't even know what is North of Barry, Ontario. All this will do is give the appearance that this government cares - don't get me wrong - it wouldn't matter which party would be in power you would get the same response and the same amount of caring. So what to do - to tell you the truth - I don't know - but I think if we got the same help the auto industry did and does - we would probably still have most mills operating - but I guess we will never know, because we will never be treated like the people are in Southern Ontario.

tleblanc- We in nwo have nothing to make ontario politicions or ontario goverment listen to our troubles or views. So what do you, i don't no either, but we could set up road blocks to bring some attention which may help. Wait i forgot! they will put me in jail unless i am aboriginal

I am not defending the MNR or the MNDMF but have any of you read this document? This isn't a north versus south issue! Why not try to be serious about this topic and offer some constructive suggestions? It is very apparent that the current tenure and stumpage system is screwed up and not working as it should.

I think it is more than a study guys! Ye-haw!!! Looks like the forest industry is here to stay !
The Ontario Gov is so sure of it that it just gave $829,000.00 to the Tagamon Nation (Kenora district)in order to prepare the First Nation Community for the development of one of two wood processing plants for The Two Feathers Products Initiative.Also, our Ont Gov gave the Namaygoosisagagun First Nation $563,135.00 to complete the construction of a sawmill and small business centre.
And here I thought we here in Northern Ontario were being ignored..shame on me.

Come on greenstoner....how many of these studies have been done in the past??? How much have these studies cost Ontario taxpayers??? How many of these studies have realized any real economic gain or benefit??? How much are the clowns on these committees making??? Monies would be better spent ensuring those displaced get severance and/or retraining.

compassn.....natives are/will be the ones with the money and thus control the resource sector in Northern Ontario. This means they will be the major employers. Many of the jobs you see advertised now are tied to native business groups. Most of those jobs are in social services, however you will start to see more focusing on natural resources. Guess who will get first dibs on those jobs......

Looks like the Ontario Gov. is doing to the forest industry what the gov. did here in Nova scotia lobster industry.

I am not aware of any study that has ever been done concerning the tenure, stumpage and funding system in Ontario. From what I have heard, this is more than a "study". Changes will be forthcoming to the current system in one way or another. The consultation that is scheduled is to allow for ideas to be brought forward. I for one don't have any problem with small communities or small companies having a louder voice in the way forest resources are allotted. As Tieblanc said, there used to be a whole pile of large companies controling everything. It is evident that that did not work, at least with the economic realities of the past 5 years.

soon to be gone...i have to disagree of one thing in ur post...natives dont work

just another member....don't get me started....lol!

unhappy....I believe the forest industry suffered the same fate as the lobster/fishing for similar reasons....self-policing of harvesting!

Soontobegone what I ment is that the gov. is buying up the licencesat a high price and giving them to the natives who in turn hire the nonnatives to fish them because they can't get any natives to work.

Soon:
Please explain how compliance monitoring of harvesting practices by the industry has led us to where we are today. You would be aware that there is ongoing monitoring by MNR, independent forest audits every 5 years, and more recently, the monitoring associated with certification audits.

greenstoner.....when the forest companies are saying they are running out of fibre....well, it don't take a rocket scientist to figure out why. Audits or no audits and blah, blah, blah, self-policing doesn't work. It is not until we get into this situation ie: shortage of fibre, that companies go 'holy crap, we have no wood!'

Most corporations are looking short term (ie: 5 years max), as those who manage them have their eye on the ball....that is (drum roll please.....) their BONUSES!!! This fact has got us where we are today (fibre shortage).

In addition, cut-backs by the MNR has exasperated and perpetuated this situation. Agreed that MNR does monitor these companies, but NOT at the level that it really needs to.

In addition, if forest corporations managed the forests properly (ie: like Scandinavian companies) and not like there was an endless supply of fibre, that would help too.

In addition (part 2) re: certification audits ....hard to believe these guys are truly independent....pretty much ANYBODY who is affiliated with each other in some way has some sort of off-hours behind-the-scenes friendly personal connection that influences them in some way. Sorry to feel that way, but I know when personal advancement (money, employment prospects) comes into play, the rules change.

Wood supply is an extremely important factor in this business. And companies actually do have a pretty good estimate of their future wood supply. I'm sorry to break it to you but compliance monitoring has absolutely nothing to do with available wood supply.

sorry greenstoner....you obviously have a much more rosier outlook than I....my bad on the compliance vs fibre supply but one would expect that these would go hand in hand....but I stick to the fact that despite "arms length" associations, there still remains an unstated, unacknowledged influence resulting in "overlooked" situations. I see it everyday in the mill I work in, especially when it comes to government and industry relations. They show up, make an appearance, but generally as long as there is relative compliance they go away. I have had discussions similar to this with buddies who work in other mills and industries.

It is all well and good to believe that total compliance exists and I commend you for that. But I'm sorry, that simply isn't the case. Granted it could be worse, but it is far from being perfect, or effective. Case in point, the forest industry, the nuclear industry, the fisheries industry.....I could go on.....

as far as your comment regarding wood supply being extremely important, that is an understatement. Without fibre there is no mill....period.

Hey Soon:
Just to clarify, I never said that total compliance exists and I never would. Just pointing out that it has nothing to do with wood supply and certainly nothing to do with the topic of this thread.

And believe me, I'm not sure about a rosy future either. There had to be a correction (too much mill capacity in NW Ontario for available wood). I think it was inevitable for some mills to go down permanently.

Nevertheless, living in a small community that has been devestated by the forestry downturn, I think there could be some hope for the future with some tenure reform and increased opportunities for some smaller players. Anything to get the economy going and house prices back close to what they were would be very welcome.

Have a good one.

hmmmm....sustainable practices is the topic of this thread, and I quote "The public will play a key role in helping Ontario’s forest industry balance economic success with sustainable practices".......imho, how the forests are managed (both corporately and publicly)goes hand in hand....but great discussion just the same....just getting tired of freaking study, after study, after study, after...