So what'd ya give up boys? Pension + vacation + benefits + senority? yessssss

Maybe you should get together with Fraser papers and start a new union....

We were told by the fearless Coles that Thunder Bay was only talking "non-pattern issues". Find this hard to believe but I guess we will find out soon enough.

We all should be ashamed of ourselves for waiting around doing nothing while this takes place. Pattern Bargaining and Solidarity is being destroyed while we blindly follow our inept leadership in doing nothing. The actions or lack of will eventually destroy the Union. While we wait for the National to call the Caucus back together more of us will succumb to this union busting. And don't worry, Coles or none of the rest of those suits will take any responsibility. They will point their fingers at the Locals even though they were the ones that sent the Locals out to fend for themselves. Saying " just stay away from pattern items" and lets stick to a bankrupt company to set the pattern. What bullshit, and we ate it !If were all on our own then maybe we should put a hold on those cheques going to Ottawa. We need a meeting NOW, not the end of Sept or later but NOW !

I hate to say this but there is only one way to stop this. We have to let Abitibi die, even if means giving them a little shove. Some will survive and some won't but we will stop tearing ourselves apart. It will be a hard sell to the Quebec Locals but thier good fortune will soon run out and will probably see the logic. Maybe we need to act like a Trade Union and shut the whole country down, take over the mills and see what happens. Something has to be done, anything is better then sitting around waiting to get picked off. We also need to address the lack of leadership within the CEP.

Negotiated talks at TBAY involve items pertinent to the operation of the mill only and do not involve pension, wages, benefits, or seniority. If that were the case the deal would be dead, dead, dead......but I guess thug and guy know best.....

Sorry soontobegone !
I didn't say you were talking those items, only that it was reported that you were talking "non-pattern" items and excuse me for saying, but I found it hard to believe. Didn't think Abi would stick around for anything less.

Its really good to hear that you held your ground but I still believe we need a caucus meeting soon. We just can't keep waiting around, we need to act and we need direction.

Again, I apologize for the assumption. I really thought the company was going to have at you.

No problem thug. We're ALL suffering the same pain. Most of the issues facing TBAY relate to fiber and hydro costs. Labour is minor in comparison, but AbiBow will take advantage of the situation and pick away just the same. We'll know soon enough what the tentative deal entails. Apparently they have a tentative deal with woodlands, so now the last piece of the puzzle is Ontario granting approval for installation of a co-gen.

I agree with union thug. We should caucus as soon as possible to see what our fearless leader is doing about the east coast situation with Fraser and give some direction to the rest of us. All locals should be e-mailing D. Coles requesting a caucus.

Here's a quote from AB TB on this site:

'The proposal also calls for extensive changes to existing collective agreements, including a temporary suspension of seniority, bumping and bidding rights and revisions to work-schedule agreements. Changes to pension provisions are also part of the package.'

You can tell me those items aren't being discussed, but I don't believe it.

Well guy, I hope your wrong or confused. We will find out soon I suspect and the Devil will be in the details. There is nothing on the CEP website but why would their be. Someday we might get a meeting with the Eastern Caucus or whats left of it.

No confusion, that's from management earlier this month regarding the situation. Tell me all those items don't wind up on the table. Fraser Edmunston, the sequel....

Guy, don't believe everything you read....it'll drive you nuts....lol.

The proposal "leaked" to the media was something the company threw out as a wish-list. You gotta start somewhere, and they started at the jugular. The local has stated emphatically that nothing involving seniority, pension, benefits, or wages would be entertained.

This mill has been through the ringer numerous times, and although there have been concessions in the past they have dealt with operational efficiencies without erosion to critical items as mentioned above. I would expect this trend to continue.

Giving up major concessions (ie: seniority, pension, benefits, or wages) will not save any mill. Just ask Marathon, Terrace Bay, or any other mill that has had their doors closed permanently.

Until we see the final proposal, everything being discussed here is hypothetical and pure conjecture. Let's not slam our fellow brothers until then.

If Brother Ginter was at the table then everything will be fine. He is one of the few that shows leadership ability within the National Exec. We only wish we could have someone like that in the Atlantic, its pretty pathetic down here.

What bothers us about the TBay deal is that just a couple short weeks ago we all recieved a letter from Coles telling us not to talk to AbiBow about anything( cost initiatives, bargaining, etc..) until the National had a meeting with the Company sharks. Shortly after that Fraser Edm signs the worst deal in history, Coles comes to NS and tells the world that Mersey ain't gonna make it and then we hear TBay is at the table. Sorta leaves us all scratching our heads. Better hurry up and get us all in the same room and maybe Brother Coles should keep quiet until that happens.

We agree with some of the other posts here. Time for plan B, this waiting around is killing us. Bending over so a pathetic company like Abitibi can survive is not the right move for the CEP. We truely are loosing our solidarity and pattern bargaining is dying.

The local may be saying they aren't negotiating seniority, pension, benefits, or wages. But I've seen that before. One way or another, those items are on the table, and if they aren't part of the deal, there will be no deal. Just wait until they come back.

oh yes....I forgot....you are a guy who knows....lol.....

I tend to agree with papermaker. Perhaps letting AbiBow die is a sound idea. Let the cards fall where they may. With luck, the assets will be sold and some of them may even start back up with (should I say it) potential to be viable again. The downside to that is loss of severance and pension. Bankruptcy will surely kill any hope of retaining those.

soontobegone...I've been there and heard that line before. It's guaranteed there is no deal without those items being negotiated. AB TB has way too much capacity, their only hope to keep supply way up and prices way down - it's only going to happen one way....

You know what's sad about all of this? It's guys like yourselves who hide behind a fake user name and talk trash. I know that a lot of the guys at my work place read a lot of the stuff printed on Forest Talk and I tell them "don't believe any of the comments" get the facts, then make an educated decision.

"I hate to say this but there is only one way to stop this. We have to let Abitibi die, even if means giving them a little shove. Some will survive and some won't but we will stop tearing ourselves apart. It will be a hard sell to the Quebec Locals but thier good fortune will soon run out and will probably see the logic. Maybe we need to act like a Trade Union and shut the whole country down, take over the mills and see what happens. Something has to be done, anything is better then sitting around waiting to get picked off. We also need to address the lack of leadership within the CEP." comment from union thug.


Is there something wrong with your head, man? You have some serious problems with this Union and some of it's members, obviously. If you don't like what you see, then get out and "take your chances."

Hhhhmmmmm. Maybe your not a Union member. Maybe, just maybe your plant.....lol

If you guys don't think your union is bargaining on Pension + vacation + benefits + senority, your all in denial..

All your going to do is take a bit of hit in pay and all your newsprint orders are going to appear. There are lots of kraft mill in Abitibowater making low tons to keep running, many newsprint machines down. But with concessions your survive... right

Somone has to be next...

see ya....refer to my previous posts.....

soontobegone...refer to my previous and more accurate posts...

lol guy....you kill me....

I don't mean to be a downer, but I've been down this road before. Exec goes in with a mandate to discuss certain items, and comes back with a horror show of demands/concessions. I just don't see it happening any other way here considering the state of newsprint and AB + the Quebec deal. This is just a whipsaw.

Thanks for the quote Roger
Your right I do have a problems with my Union but I am a dues paying member. I'd love to leave my real name but it would cause me nnd others to much grief. As far as giving my head a shake , I do it constantly and it doesn't seem to help.

If your a member and don't have any problem watching this circus. And if you don't mind waiting it out to get picked off and sell your soul to the Company Store. Then don't bother reading these posts if its going to drive you nuts, Brother. Some of us are going down swinging and if a few feathers get ruffled then so be it.

ABITIBI GOT TO GO..NO MORE EXTENSIONS

rumor has it that there was a wage cut put in place with these negotiations. If so, how many jobs did they save? did management take i cut? I dont think so. The ones doing the negotiations are only trying to save their own butts. Local 39 has done nothing to save jobs since A mill went down. all we have done is lose jobs instead of saving them. Anyone who works at the mill knows this is true. Every time the company cuts jobs, they usually say they will cut for example ten jobs but then they double the amount to twenty or more. They want to cut 86 jobs with this agreement. Watch how many jobs actually get cut. I'll bet its more. The company and union will do nothing for the workers including me, who are about to lose our jobs with 30+ years seniority. but to the negotiators that saved their own skin and not ours, congratulations for messing with us and our families lives. when will this membership take a stand? we have given enough already.

I heard a rumour the sky is falling! Come on people. Wait until the details are out, then blast away. Until then you're winding yourselves up in a knot.

soon to be gone. im not winding myself up. i think you also work for abibow thunder bay and you know in my previous statement everything said is true. except for perhaps the cut in pay rumor which is more than likely true. and if your soon to be gone, what has the union done for you?

timber....you are correct.....I do work for TBAY and am not and never have been on the union exec. What has my union done for me? They (along with the company) gave me 30 1/2 years of decent wages, pension, & benefits.

Unfortunately, 30 1/2 years doesn't cut it and I will likely be out of a job. As crappy as it is, this is not earth-shattering news as I have worked under this threat for at least 20 of those 30 years. Now it is all coming to fruition. It sucks, and I'm not sure what I will do, but when they finally do kick me the hell out I'm gonna say "woo hoo.....what a ride!" and move on.

I don't blame anyone because there are too many issues that contributed to my (and others at TBAY and other mills) final demise. I realize that one of the primary issues is we are employed in an industry that sadly, is dying, much like the dinosaur. That, my friend, is nobody's fault. That is progress. I liken it to the automobile replacing the horse and buggy. Time to move on. I just keep my fingers crossed that my severance, wind-up, and pension remain in tact. At least I will have something to fall back on until I decide what I want to be when I grow up....lol.....

Well said soontobegone...well said.

soontobegone, are you not under CCAA protection. If so I believe that the severance, wind-up, and pension is very much in jeopardy. Hope for your sake this is not true but ask our brothers in Newfoundland.

for the workers laid off in thunderbay you can go to the union hall after 12 and get a copy of the agreement lets hope its not as bad as we think

Grandmont, Alain 550,866 -+- 16,260 =569,235

Harvey, William 789,826 -+- 194,069 =1,038,410

Paterson, David 1,518,590 -+- 519,114 =2,723,450

Rougeau, Pierre 540,295 -+- 15,287 =557,419

Weaver, John 1,616,940 -+- 5,833,170 =7,485,710

Wright, James 554,685 -+- 613,774 =1,323,150

this is what the top brass made in basic compensation in 2008 as listed on routers. while we have to take consessions, these boys are living high on the hog. not bad money for puttin a company into bancruptcy. this kind of money would keep people working for a long time or perhaps paying severance owed to the employees.

That is really gross. Especially seeing Weaver was retired and our retirees are getting screwed. Any details on the tBay ageement yet ?

FYI...all the "clothing" has been taken off #4 paper machine including the dryer felts....thus it will be down permanently or for a very,very long time!!!!!!

It's presently being "spit polished"...."Could there be a For Sale sign on it in the near future???"

Regarding not receiving the severances,pensions amd wind-ups....wonder what the employees of Ontario Hydro and the 3 levels of government would say/do if THIER pensions,and severances were no longer available to them...mmmmmmmm....I think there would be a public display of __________!!!!!!!!!(Feel free to fill in the blank!)

Good luck in turning a chapter in the newsprint industry....could be the biggest blessing in disguise!

"Creative Distruction" in the making....the news will still "flow" but the medium is changing to "smartphones/internet"...

Doctorblade

QUOTE "wonder what the employees of Ontario Hydro and the 3 levels of government would say/do if THIER pensions,and severances were no longer available to them...mmmmmmmm....I think there would be a public display of __________!!!!!!!!!(Feel free to fill in the blank!)"

I wonder the same thing, power is running at 30-40% capacity at all the generating stations and not a single layoff or shutdown, but yet we pay full price for hydro while water is being by-passed away from the genertaors at the damns, and out coal fired stations are idleing...
pathetic.....and then they have no lay off clauses etc that protect them..