I hope the Quebec mills sent a thank you note for the orders that were given to them.

What mills in Quebec are getting hit with down time?

Very few, that's the point. They get 5 to 6 days, everyone else gets 5 to 6 weeks.

Amos got a week and Gatineau got a week. Although I think Gatineau's is only one machine.

The Mersey mill got 6 weeks this time. Thats a total of 16 weeks out of 28 that its been down. When asked about the orders going to Quebec, we were told that "the orders don't belong to Mersey, the orders belong to the corporation." And although the Mersey mill is not under bankruptcy protection and it has no debt, the corporation thinks it makes more economic sense to give the orders to the Quebec mills. Go figure. The corporation also says that the DIP financing given to them from the Quebec gov't has nothing to do with the Quebec mills getting the orders. Yup, I'm the Pope and I shit in the woods too.

What about the US abi-bow newsprint mills?? Alabama River, Coosa Pines, Augusta, Greneda, and Calhoun?>?? I do not see these being idled at all. When do they have to take downtime?

Well people, looks like the Ontario mills and Mersey mill are being starved out!!!

Tripp..... Alabama River is currently indefinetly shut! ... & i may be mistaken, but i seem to recall that Calhoun has or had one machine idled (the one owned by AbitibiBowater.. as at this site AB ownes one machine & their joint partner owns the other... not too sure of the current status though!

Ike is correct when he states that the mills in Quebec seem to be getting preferential treatment! They are not taking the man hours worth of downtime as the mills situated in Ontario & Nova Scotia, I would hazard a guess as to why?.... Perhaps its the DIP financing , or perhaps they are not willing to take the chance that another scenario as was implimented by Danny Williams, during the NFLD closing of the Grand Falls Mill can not be allowed to happen again! I believe that after their current sale of Hydro assets in quebec are finalized, then & as is now stated by the monitor, that AB is in the process of restructuring , will AB start closing & Idling assets in Quebec. Where as at the moment i'm quite sure that they will make certain that all sales are final & thus removing any provincial reprocussions from the mix of possible responses, by the province of Quebec!Or perhaps they are just catering to Quebec as it now seems that they are!

I really want to know why the shareholders are letting these same incompetant CEO's continue to run this company?... They are proven to be inept at the task at hand... perhaps they should use the stored up bonuses & stocks that are being saved in their names to rehire Nimero & his followers who were all let go after his retirement!... At least these CEO's made smart business decisions as opposed to any of the Abitibi CEO's!Just cause they played football together does not make them the all american Newsprint CEO!!

Just a thought!...

Alphonse... I agree!!

The Quebec nesprint mills are:

Amos
Baie Comeau
Clermont
Gatineau
Shawnigan

Axel, do you think any of these will be permently close? Also, is the hydro plant you mentioned in Iqiqois Falls?? That is Ontario, not Qubec.

Tripp..... perhaps i'm wrong... but my understanding was that there are 2 hydro facilities on the market.... one in Ontario & one in Quebec... if that is not the case i would also really like to know as it changes up everything as far as i see it! If that is so.. then we are clearly looking at the protection of those in Quebec & the starving out of those in Ontario & Nova Scotia!

& as for your question?... Well personally i think that Baie Comeau & is safe.... Gatineau & Clearmont are on the Block & one of the first to go.... the others fall wherever they fall.... but these facilities are currently being protected...!

Axel, you seem well informed and your opions well though out, thank you! I believe Mersey would be better off if they were set free(sold) to another entity. I know washington Post own 51% of them, but another investor would do a much better job. I cit as an example, the mill In Stanaconna. When ENRON owned it, they simply dumped the price and comaditized pricing on the internet. They went bankrupt and the mill operated for 2 years under the banks before White Birch bought it. It is now their money bags flagship mill and doing well.

Not trying to creat an issue but the fact remains that newsprint sales are down 31 % as opposed to 8-10 % projection back in Sept. AB is playing this game very carefully because of the Quebec money they are using during the restructuring process. Once the restructuring process is complete, Quebec and Ontario hydo sales will be complete, the loan from the Quebec Gov will be paid back and you will see ALL the Quebec and Ontario Mills close permanently as well as the Mersey mill.
Newsprint for the US market will be produced in locations closest to the market....The USA. After that, the company will not have to worry about opening up negotiations with the CEP or any other Canadian based union. For once this company is being smart. They are going to pull the plug on the Canadian Mills before the Unions get the chance to play the political route as happened in NFLD. And they Lost that one long before they started!

Dave.... LOL.... well all i can say is that is a really nice wish list!... The Black Liquor subsidy is set to die in the fall (& why there has not been a NAFTA challenge to this is shocking & sad)... the mills you have listed for closure are all Abitibibowater mills in Canada... will not happen.... the final scenario will not even be close to this end prediction by yourself.

The new AB streamlined & still owning 40 plus % of the market share is going to conduct business from where it will make the most capital... & yes, the value of the dollar may be rising at the moment, but we all know that is a short term situation!.. The millions being made per company by the subsidies being offered in the US.. are about to end... they will now have to stand on their own 2 feet & earn or close...& many of them WILL close!

The mills in Canada ( many of them anyway)... make far more grades than just newsprint & most of their market share is NOT in North America. Sorry to tell you pal.... but what you are seeing happen in Canada at the moment is about to hit the US in a really big way!... Welcome to the real game where what you make in revenue is actually about your product & not about what the government is giving you in the form of a subsidy!.... & To all of the newsprint buyers out there?... well all i can say is that the current LOW price war being driven by some of these US companies is not going to last much longer..... & then they will be gone... May want to consider that before you make your bed & find yourself sleeping on the floor!....

Owwww..... I just noticed this last line of the announcement..."Front office personal will included with the temporary layoffs"....

Well now... seems that the mill in Thorold is finally getting it right & saving money by NOT paying its company people to sit idely by for weeks on end & twiddle their fingers.... Now! if i were calling the shots at other AB mills that are currently taking downtime?... well now, it would be really hard to justify why the company folk at other locations are still reporting to work & still collecting their salaries , when there is little or no work for them to perform, & at the same time those same company folk at Thorold are sitting at home on pogy, just like the unionized employees!...

This "Game" is all about making one mill look better as compared to another AB Mill is it not?.... well if that is really the case i expect to hear the same sort of announcement from the rest of the AB mills that are currently & soon to be, taking downtime, due to so called market weakening! WOW! i guess this whole problem has not been caused by the unions.... who woulda guessed?.... Now.... Company folk.... enjoy your summer off... if you need any help with your pogy claims i'm sure they will go just as smoothly as ours did!.....

Axel;

What a loser you are...

Bill.... Awwww Pal!.... just cause u live south of the border is no need to insult.... I try to refrain from such low tatics.... But... if u are looking for a job in the next year?... well perhaps u will be allowed to get a work visa for Canada!!!!.... Cause after the black liquor subsidy is gone??.... well so are 1/2 of the mills in the US of A!

& Thnx for the Love.... I really feel it! But that does not make me wrong!!

Hey Bill...care to quantify that remark.
Didn't your Mama tell you that if you havn't got something nice to say you shouldn't say anything at all ?

Axel...just cause the front office is layed off doesn't mean their not getting paid.

"Axel...just cause the front office is layed off doesn't mean their not getting paid."

Hmmmm... very correct!.... I should have seen that!....I stand corrected ... Company folks getting a paid summer off... yep! that sounds more like real life.... !!

Axel,
With all due respect, it's not a wish list. Unfortunately, it's a reality. I was one of the people in Grand Falls who finished on March 31st. This mill had an opportunity to be a leader of the pact because of it's assets. The Grand Falls mill had an excellent power supply and a respectable fibre cost but for some reason, our culture outlived our understanding of the present. We all were caught in the past.

Yes there are many to blame but why start!

I posted here because after 30 years in this Industry, those stil left making newsprint or any other commercial grade paper should not only feel proud of their past accomplishments but understand what is on the horizon. It's bad news and sad news as well. Something I would not wish on anyone! There is no rebound in this Business anymore...for decades it could and did and becaue of that we all survived. God Bless All

Dave... i'm really sorry to hear that you are one of the people affected by the GFW closing... & i really do mean that sincerely! I personally don't want to see anyone lose their jobs, well ecept for the CEO'S of this company called Abitibibowater,... to the contrary i would be happy if everyone could keep on running & more pple were hired, but we both know that is not going to be the case!
You folks in Grand Falls were dealt a rock / hard place, losing hand... those of us in the know realise this... I wish to god i could change it, but i cannot!
However, i still do not agree with what you had to say.... Yes! there is a shuffle coming in the AB company.. & then there will be the fallout effects trickling down through all of the other players(Companys) in the game!... BUT!... a time will come that the supply / demand / cost / profit chart has been maximized for Canadian mills & when this does happen, not all of the Canadian mills will be shuttered!

American mills will start being shuttered in the new year... & yes , this will take time as well... but eventually this industry is going to be streamlined & a money maker... add to that a turn in the economy & i predict that eventually the remaining mills will be almost able to name their price for newsprint!..Sure we are in the bad times now, but the good times are coming, they always do! & When they do those that are left in the game will be making one hell of a lot of money! & as the percentages stand at the moment, Abitibibowater is going to hold the market share of this demand!

No... not all mills in Canada are going to be closed by AB... just enough mills to get them through the restructuring & get their shares relisted on the new york & Toronto stock echanges!....

Axel,

I respect your opinion even though it differs from mine! (That's Fine)

I have been a member of the defined contributions pension plan now for many years. In fact, I had really great advise from a family member who suggested I make alterations to my portfolio to reflect the changes in the market place and direct my contributions to electronic developments 3 years ago. Since then, I am blessed that my fortunes remained the same during a time when the economy went south on both sides of the border and basically every investor went south with it!.
Saying that, one of my electronic investments was with RIM (Revolution in Motion)...makers of the Blackberry. This 1st Quarter they sold 34 million Blackberry's in NA alone which was up 87 % from the first quarter last year. Althoug a great profit for me personally, not so well for the paper industry. 34 Million in North America alone. Lets say 1/2 buy a paper once a week. ......Many tonnes now lost.
That's part of the reason why I think ( and truly not wish) that Canadian Mills are history because the new era is faster experts can predict. Below is a C & P from an independant source in Winnipeg. All the Best

MONTREAL - Struggling paper producer AbitibiBowater (TSX:ABH) will likely survive its financial challenges, but as a much smaller company, analysts said Tuesday.

Industry observers say North American's largest newsprint producer will have to shrink its size either through bankruptcy protection or following some form of recapitalization. "It seems inevitable," said Paul Quinn of RBC Capital Markets. "The underlining direction for newspapers is troubling."

As the market leader with 40 per cent market share, AbitibiBowater may cut production by another one to two million tonnes on top of nearly one million tonnes already removed, he said in an interview.

But, Quinn said they may get additional help from other producers that have also cut production.

Analysts from debt-rating agency DBRS say AbitibiBowater may try to run its mills to extract cash, but a restructuring will ultimately force it to shrink.

"They will be much smaller than they used to be and with more capacity taken out of the market," Kam Hon, managing director of industrials said during a conference call providing an outlook for the forest, pulp and paper industry.

AbitibiBowater is attempting a last-minute effort to recapitalize its debt to avoid having to seek bankruptcy protection.

If those efforts fail, the market will anticipate a rapid increase in production curtailments, added Tom Fitkowski, senior vice-president of forest products at DBRS.

The newspaper industry is undergoing deep structural changes that will continue to reduce overall demand for a while yet, he said.

U.S. newsprint demand has been falling for more than 20 years. After peaking at 12.3 million tonnes in 1987, sales were just 6.8 million tonnes in 2008.

This year should see even lower demand as more newspapers go out of business, others experience circulation declines and advertisers switch to the Internet during the economic recession.

Fitkowski said some smaller producers may fold, but larger companies with cost-efficient mills, such as West Fraser's (TSX:WFT) newsprint mill in Alberta, will survive.

Failure to bring supply in line with demand will only trigger further price declines. But in the long-term, a recovery in advertising when the economy turns around "will bring increased profitability for the survivors."

AbitibiBowater spokesman Seth Kursman said any talk of the company downsizing "would be speculation."

The company announced plans Tuesday to close a Quebec sawmill in Lebel-sur-Quevillon for an indeterminate period effective May 29 because of weak demand. The move affects 99 workers. The union says it expects the layoff will last at least four months.

However, 200 idled loggers are expected to return to work in May.

Also on Tuesday, AbitibiBowater said that some of its lenders have granted its Abitibi-Consolidated subsidiary a waiver after it failed to meet the requirements under a $210-million receivables purchase agreement.

The waiver by Citibank and Eureka Securitisation extends the termination date of the loan to Sept. 1 and increases the permitted delinquency ratios. But the company must file its financial statements by April 30.

It is also required to pay a fee of US$12.6 million, of which $3 million was paid April 2.

Demand for market pulp, lumber, other paper products and cardboard are all expected to be negatively impacted by deteriorating global economic conditions in 2009, with improvement possibly starting by the end of the year.

"We're seeing some positive indications that the market is bottoming," Fitkowski said.

Still, he noted that pressures may ultimately force some higher cost market pulp mills to disappear for good.

"Some of the down time that has been announced already, such as the Marathon mill in Ontario may not start up again."

On the lumber side, sawmills shut over the last year probably won't reopen, but Fitkowski said positive signs in U.S. housing suggest a recovery could come in 2010.

Axel,

And that was a report from April 7th.

Dave... Yeah! i have already read this release..... & i can't say that i dispute it... AB will have to downsize, the very least that they have to in order to hold their market share & force other companies to close & shutter plants!

This is the end all to end all game of who lives & who dies in the newsprint / paper of any grade battle!

I still stand by what i said earlier & yes... i do agree that most of North America is now reading their news on their blackberrys & cell phones & home puters... BUT.... the news Companies have yet to impliment prices for this service! This is coming down the pipe as well! Actually i seem to remember a post from about a week ago that stated as much... the heads of some of North Americas newspapers getting together to set their battle plans....Right at this moment the one thing that the internet community provides that an actual newspaper does not, is the ability to quickly skip to another newspaper... If this other newspaper is all of a suddon a seperate monthly charge?... well.... all i can say is that commuters on a go train may be more adapt to picking up the sun then they are at paying for umpteen different papers!
However, all of those arguements aside.. AB is still a producer of foreign newsprint / coated paper & Book paper.... & as soon as the banks start allowing places like Inda & Brazil & China etc to borrow money again to pay for their paper?... well then the Canadian papermakers are back in business! This is a fact & is what is holding up production at the moment... its not that the orders are not out there... its that the foreign newspapers that want the product are not being allowed to get the capital to pay for the product.... This will change!

Dave... i really do wish you & yours all the best & am sooo sorry to hear of the situation thatb you are now in... who knows , perhaps this time net year i will be in it as well.... but even if that is the case, this industry IS going to turn around... at least for 10 to 20 years....!

Dave,like "Axel",I also wish the best for you and all the former employees of the GFL mill.I hope you get all the money owed to you by either the present government or by ABH...when all is said and done with this "BK".

It's my understanding that 1.5 million more tons of newsprint have to be taken out of the market to balance supply with demand.With ABH having 40% of the newsprint market, that would mean they still have to permanently take approximately 600k tons out.Thus this is where all the ABH mills are wondering..."who's next" to shutter their doors?
If the "playing field" is leveled(Que/US),I believe there will still be Candian mills operating in a much more streamlined industry.
Going forward,I think it comes down to valueable assets,fiber supply,electricity costs,market locations,machine efficiencies and labour contracts.
Thus alot of questions are being asked by the remaining mills running...."Are we viable"??
Getting back to Dave,did your mill have quarterly financial updates?If so,when did they end or when did you know your mill would be closing permanently? Did ABH string you along or did the company give you alot of "data/clues" that GFL was "on the block"?
IMHO the longer the recession lasts the more advertisers will switch(or stay) with another form of medium for their advertising dollars.And unfortunately,it will only mean even more newsprint coming off the market.
Let's face it,the world is going digital faster than most people ever thought.With the "Kindle" now here,the type of "print" will be more and more selective to who advertises on it.(Newsprint being the "lowest")
Personally,I'd like to get 10 more years out of the industry,but,if anything,I hope a pension or severance awaits me!
Pics

Pics!..... Very well said... & i must say, i agree with you!

It really is nice to be able to talk to others in different areas & get their story of how things are, well those who are willing to debate as opposed to irrate.... hate to say it, but we couldn't do this in a newspaper.... but it definately does have its advantages, can't argue that!
This ability for everyone in this industry to be able to converse with each other is power people!... Dunno if you all realise this, but it really is!... Gone are the days of comparing this place to that place.. we know better... or we should!

Just thinking out loud again....!

Hey Pics, That's cool and along with Axel, appreciated... I guess it doesnt really matter where you start from or finish. It's only important what is done in the race!

Pics, the extra 600K of tonnes was not in the original plan. It's a counter measure to help offset the change in demand.
I feel terrible in saying this but I will say - 2 Years ago, if anyone had to have said to me " Dave, that mill will close because times are "a" changing...I would have laughed all the way to the Bank. Now I go to the Bank......without a smile

Awww hell Dave... that just sucks my friend!... No one deserves the shit u folks have been put through... No one!

& Yeah! i hear ya, quite clearly actually, but i am also very well read & research is my favorite passtime... so i do have a good idea of what i am talking about!... Am i correct?... time will tell i guess.... but that does not change how unfairly you & your workmates have been treated & not everyone out here blames the big bad union for the shut down.... we know that AB inniated this & then saw it through & are now in line for years worth of litigation due to how they handled this! Nothing like treating your #1 assett with respect eh?!...

Keep the faith pal... hopefully things will get better for you & yours!

Just curious Dave,do/did you have to get another job?How long were you employed at the GFL mill?Have you received any money since being shut down?(I understand the workers are now "creditors" thus "in-line" to collect $$ from ABH.

Also,you mentioned about the "culture" not changing.....I assune you were referring to NO cut backs by the union?ie:restructuring...which is an on-going policy these days.

Were your paper machines "wide and fast"? Were they upgraded often?Did you still have a "6th hand"?Or were you on the mechanical gang?

On a side note....one thing about humans,we are very good at adapting to change and sometimes(if not more so)change is good for us.(health wise especially).

Good luck on your new endeavours.

Pics

Axel,,,,,get a life you retard

That wasn't very nice Anon !

Most people posting on this site are working stiffs. Although they are all opinions, theories and conjecture it is a free country. You don't have to agree and you too can post your thoughts. To call someone names only goes to show your maturity level and ignorence. It may otherwise keep smart people from posting on this site.

Anon, you and Bill need to grow up and save your insults for the Junior High Schoolyard. Good luck in getting past Grade 7.

Ignorence, eh?

Newspapers – an American tragedy unfolds






There is a tragedy unfolding in the US; it looks like Philadelphia is going to be the first big city on the planet that is going to be without any kind of newspaper at all in the near future - and it is not alone - other cities are hot on its heels as their newspapers also show signs of shutting up shop, including Boston, Detroit and San Francisco.

There have already been closures, the Seattle Post-Intelligencer shut earlier this year, and the Rocky Mountain News, the newspaper for Denver, Colorado also closed its doors, and the industry as a whole is in a perilous state, with well over 15,000 jobs being lost last year and 8,000 already this year.

The blame for the demise of these newspapers is being laid at various doors, obviously the Internet is a major factor but Paul Harris, writer for The Observer newspaper in the UK also states that newspapers in the US have been, and still have, the capability to be profitable, but that the creation of the huge newspaper chains have been instrumental in their demise. Harris says "The question of who killed the American newspaper industry is not a simple as that; in fact the industry has done a pretty good job of killing itself. Over the past few decades - and even today - newspapers have been profitable, often very profitable. Margins of 20% or 30% attracted large, publicly floated companies to invest. Throughout the 1980s and 1990s, old family owners or wealthy proprietors sold up, and fully fledged American capitalism moved in to create huge newspaper chains".

Harris goes on to say that this approach has ended up in disaster, and that whilst family ownership might consider any size of profit a sign of health, a modern newspaper company wants ever-increasing returns. He continues, "Thus when revenues began to fall, management tried to keep margins at the same high level by cutting costs and firing staff. And, in spite of everything, most newspapers in America today remain profitable businesses; it is just that they are not as profitable as they used to be".