Oh please, this "breath of life" smells so much,and is wrong on so many levels...why is the name John Hitchman cropping-up yet again? Isn't he the ..*ahem*..brains behind the last fiasco that put the place in the toliet the first time?!Doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out why Mr. Hitchman is "keen" to see this place run."Experience says,I know what I'm doing",right? As the saying goes,denial is a river in Eygpt.

Again a loud mouth has to voice a word of negativity... step up or shut up, that mill needs to go and dont look too close at the managers , wait to see if they get really smart and put a few good solid men in to run the mill itself.
What they dont need is people who were fired at Bowater for sleeping on the job because they have union leadership, and a fluffed resume.This is the areas of concern for the public sector in Thunder Bay. What they do need is forward thinking people who want to earn their pay not expect it. As for union involvment....would it ever be nice to see the Saturn concept if you know what that is. Leadership by example and not seniority!!!

Good luck SFP

Not all the creditors who got hosed initially by Thunder Bay Fine Papers are among the "new" Superior investors. Good luck finding anyone to extend terms beyond payment in advance to these clowns! No raws materials and supplies = SHUT DOWN. Um, AGAIN!

This mill does have a new life, but as the previous comment says, good luck with suppliers. Onced burned,twice shy. As for Mr. Hitchman and the so called previous executive position holders, how could you have possibly let this mill run until it was broke. The Sinclair family, with their successful business history, I'm sure will put competent people in the right positions.
Good luck, Thunder Bay needs this.

To Mr. "Concerned"

Obviously you’re a person of little depth. To say the Saturn concept is “Leadership by example and not seniority” is like saying “Oboma was elected because he is white”. You clearly are trying to sound intelligent but in doing so you have contradicted and discredited yourself all at the same time.
Back in the 90’s, major unions from steel workers, automakers to forestry pushed for management teams to attend the Saturn facility to learn that their number one asset was the unionized employees. Saturn went on to make millions once the management team included the union in all levels of decision making.
Surely, Mr. Concerned, you have not even seen their philosophy makeup, their collective agreement or their model of empowerment.
I’m almost embarrassed for you. If you want to feel important online, perhaps you should stick to other sites.
There you can tell everyone you have a full set of hair and not be called on it.

A coated papers mill in Wisconsin closed in mid 2008.
It had two machines, one built in 1981 and one
built in 1988, with a total capacity of 500,000 tons.
If this mill was considered to be "non competitive" in
the current market conditions, pray tell how can Superior Fine Papers possibly survive long term?

You missed my point and attacked me as if you are some form of knowledge. You probably sleep on the job too...and then cry to the union for protection when you get caught?

Please,tell me where the money isssssss.

Something smells here. The local paper announced last fall the Thunder Bay Fine Papers had secured a 10 million dollar line to keep the mill operating. These funds seemed to have disappeared into thin air. 2 weeks later it was in receivership. Now...the local paper reported that Mr. Jay Sinclair stated that he would have the 35 million in place by the time court reconvened the following week. The next thing you hear..after the court approves the purchase...is that they are looking for 35 million to open Superior Fine Papers. Is this a stalling attempt to allow the government to inject MORE funds into this supposed new venture. Could someone tell me where all the money went from the last fiasco...and is there any type of government watchdog that looks into situations like this to see if someone did actually line thier pockets from the last go around as a previous commentor mentioned. Show me the money....honey.

What money. Lets see if they keep the same crew in place to cover up the dealings of Thunder Bay Fine Papers.

Did you read the announcement?
The 4th paragraph explains to you where the money went.
“20 million in upgrades”
Furthermore, there was millions in inventory at the time of receivership. Plus, over a hundred employees on the payroll with no sales revenues coming back to the site. How is this hard to understand? I realize with leadership comes criticism, but really - give Mr. Hitchman and his team the benefit of the doubt.
The mill has great potential. Proven quality. Experience employees. If the sales team can find a market, the site will be a great success.

The only "benefit" Mr. Hitchman should be given,is the door as it hits him on the way out.There is no market right now and for the forseeable future,until the economy in the States and overseas improves.As previously mentioned,perhaps they're shooting for that 2012 start-up date? While the sinclairs may be saying "great potential",without suppliers,buyers,and demand for products,there won't be a mill,or ANY mill,for that matter.Give your heads a shake--with major comapanies in the States laying off 5,10,15,000 employees because there are no jobs,there is NO long term substainablity for Fine Papers.

Think about it?
Why don't you think about the families that were affected by this poor attempt made at starting up Thunder Bay Fine Papers. Logic says this...start one machine...focus on one machine and as you make progress and profit..then move on to the next machine. Inventory, why is it still sitting in a warehouse. And please don't tell me it has all been sold. If a logical approach was made at TBFP, then the mill wouldn't be in the predicament it's in now. Why not just admit...they spread the money all over hhacre with no business plan in place and this is how the former employees see it. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure it out. So you give everyone the benefit of doubt, you're one of few.

To baffled
Hey, no doubt the money was spread all over. The vision was to have 3 machines running with a new wood room and a co-gen plant. Perhaps this was a promise to the shareholders? What ever the case, the money was spent with the intention of longevity and success. There were no Band-Aid fixes and big capital expenditures. My point is, the money just didn’t disappear or a “cash grab” by the board. It is invested in the site and it’s primed and ready to go. If there are “orders” the Sinclairs bought a hell of a site. As for the inventory – millions of dollars was there at the time of receivership. Sold or not- the previous writer was asking where the money went. I don’t think it’s fair to discredit or put false accusations towards a group of individuals that tried so passionately to restart the site. I hope for their success, Thunder Bay needs it.

Ok. So we agree, the money WAS spent all over the place. Not spent wisely tho. Your opinion of things differ from mine, and I respect yours. But...I still believe, as many I have spoken to, that the group made unexcusable mistakes at many peoples expense. Sell your point to all the creditors that will never see a dime of their outstanding debt. Sell it to all the employees who gave up other jobs and bought into TBFP's vision. I sincerely wish Superior Fine Papers success, but defending any actions of the previous executive is not going to fly with most.

Certainly not accusing any one of anything...just questioning. No harm in that.

Just came across this site and have read all the comments. To try and make sense of the comments made by some here is difficult. Seems like some commentor's are employees who may have been kept on by the receiver when they took ownership, or maybe an investor. Regardless, i have to agree that the best defense seems to be offense with some. With all the frustration and disappointment people have had to endure with Provincial Papers, Cascades, Thunder Bay Fine Papers,and the receiver, it's no wonder there is a feeling of skeptisism and hopelessness over the future of this mill. Current economic conditions certainly don't help lifting people to a point of optimism. Abitibi-Bowater,Marathon,Red Rock, Mission, Thunder Bay Packaging,Kenora, Dryden and so on lead one to believe that we are in a no win situation here. A recent TB Source poll showed an overwhelming feeling that this mill is doomed long term. I disagree. Given the opportunity with proper management, a strong sales team, which apparently seems to be in place and a realistic business plan which ignores "promises to shareholders",this mill can survive. The TBFP experience will be a valuable asset to the new group. They have a fresh start, a difficult one, but an opportunity to succeed. I wish them well, and yes..Thunder Bay needs this.

People can wish Fine Papers "all the good luck","TB needs this","great potential"...etc.,.all they want,but without a strong marketplace,there won't be any orders coming in to keep this place going.Can anyone blame the former employees,or creditors,for dismissing this latest "venture"? Last time I checked,the economy was still in the toliet,with no relief in sight.I agree with the other 90%--this place is doomed even before it starts.Unfortunetly,the new owners are going to be stuck waiting another few years before they can pat themselves on the backs.Luck,good wishes,and a spiffy sales-team have nothing to do with securing orders and putting people to work--a healthy economy does.

This article has raised a various amount of debate....

There is still a good chance for this mill to make money!!!

I think the economy is a critical area of concern but there is a demand for printing papers... the key would be to get one of those machines trimmed to produce a niche product, maybe a form of coated printable or a specialty paper that would get a few of the print shops wanting to use the product.

Head to a print shop and witness the various elements to prodicuing a high quality advertisment and you will gain a new perspective regarding a demand or a economy.

If SFP can get a few tons out and converted, they will quickly gain some confidence in the print industry. If the department heads and supervisors are going to run around blaming the o.m.c or the stack rolls for defects and not root cause quality issues in an accountable fashion..... just leave the place down.

And "a few of the print shops wanting to use this product" would keep a few hundred employed fulltime at sfp? Yeah,those "print shops"--man,they'll be able to set things right...what,with their capacity for mega-employment opportunities,it'll tie in nicely with John Hitchman and that cracker-jack sales team they have lined-up...

To Concerned
For the first time, I somewhat agree with you. Paper products don’t always go down in demand when a slow economy hits. For instants, more people eat fast food that fine dining, McDonalds is all paper waste. More individuals go to school which requires a demand in books. The world demand does not change for tampons and other feminine products. Perhaps more people will by a magazine rather than go the theater.
What ever the case, if the sales team can fine a market the mill is ready to meet the demand.
After reading all the comments, Mr. Concerned, you seem to have a passion for the topic but a strong negative flair for the Management of the site. Yet, if I “read between the lines”, it sounds like you were once one of them? Furthermore, you would be willing to come back to Thunder Bay to help start it up. Comments on 09/02/09. If correct, are you not just calling yourself down? Why would you what to work with such incompetent people? What make you think that they would want you back after all your negative bashing? I would have to agree with “ Stay Away” – Stay away.

To Agreed

Whats up your sleeve next?

I was there , where were you....

What about the small business people who offered credit and got strung along - we don't work on big markup's and we also employee local people - now we have to lay off, cut back and string out suppliers out because people are not honest up front. No deal - any orders from ANY mill are now Cash with purchase order. Bet the management didn't miss a paycheque.

You can be sure management got paid. Its time now for this new company to clean house. Start fresh and gain the trust of people like the previous commenter "Supplier". Maybe with a reorganization and fresh management, some trust will return.

Supplier...

It is always the way, were there no provisions that if the mill was bought out that the suppliers would be paid as well?

Wouldn't that shock the world. Taking care of the bad debt. Only in our dreams would we see the small guy come out smiling. Not a bad idea tho to help establishing the new company, especially if they get government funds.

They may not be obligated to pay the debts from the old company but I know that some suppliers have pieces of the paper machines in their shop. I bet they receive the total amount owed before the item is released. Other suppliers are the only source for parts or service for a particular item. You know they are not coming to the table until past debts are paid.
I know we are not shipping any parts until we have been compensated for the last go around.

In my opinion, the mill should clean up the bad debt to the suppliers and small supporting companies in town that I am sure have been there assisting in the start up as well as ongoing support.

I have faith in the mill, most of the people who I know are employed there again and would welcome the chance to put my efforts toward making it a viable place to work and make a decent living from....

The new group, headed by the Sinclair family has one of the largest outstanding debts from Thunder Bay Fine Papers, 1 million plus.Obviously with being involved with SFP, they have an opportunity to re-coup some of their losses. Were they compensated with extra shares in the new company, or are they still sitting with the full debt? Thunder Bay is too small to shaft as many small and medium sized business's and not have a problem with credit in the future. I hope the best to all business's in recouping some of their losses. They supplied parts and service and don't deserve to be left holding the empty bag.

An interesting comment regarding shares. If suppliers are not compensated for their losses, why couldn't they give them shares equal to their loss value. Something is better than nothing.

John Hitchman should watch his words.I was there last year and they need more then a few weeks to start up the superclanders,they need a #6 pm.running and that is not going to happen for a long time.

is Superior Fine Papers up & running it has been almost 3 weeks since the press release Feb 7th

As usual, they leave everyone in the dark. Superior Fine Papers sounds like a re-make of Thunder Bay Fine Papers. Not running, and all of a sudduen after the purchase, with 90,000 tons in supposed secured orders, no financing in place. Hopefully something transpires soon for the employees who have waited so long for this to happen. Wonder how long the customer's will wait this time?

it has been four weeks.lets here when it will start up or sell it for scrap

Superior Fine papers, regardless of all the negative comments, does have a fighting chance. It will the the ONLY fine paper mill in Canada. With Mr. Obama pushing "Buy American", this gives us an opportunity to BUY CANADIAN.If the government and canadian businesses stick to buying canadian, this mill has a great future. It's up to the politicians to insure this happens. Keep it in Canada.

is Andre Nicole and some of the original investors including some from the U.S. involved in this new start up?

The "Buy American" campaign is about infrastructure spending i.e. steel. Fine paper is not going to be part of any government "Buy Canadian" campaign. The Canadian market cannot sustain ANY item produced in a large-scale Canadian forest products plant - not paper, not pulp, not lumber, not OSB, not anything. We need a big U.S. customer base to succeed and it is not there. As far as its chance of re-opening goes - it is 0% for the near-term. Paper machines across the world are being shut down due to the global economy. Every paper mill in the U.S. is taking downtime right now - and these are existing mills with actual customer bases and actual(but limited) cash to operate. Superior/Thunder Bay Fine Papers will not get $1 million never mind $35 million in the credit market today. They may have a chance to get going when the North American market turns around but there is ABSOLUTELY NO CHANCE for them to start-up in 2009. Any additional government money will only repay the investors and will not get them into a profitable running situation. Good employees and a good product are irrelevent in this economic climate. Wake-up people.

I agree with "a realist",and it's something I said about 3 pages ago in this forum--until the American and European economies pick up,sfp WILL NOT be starting up.Period.
And even if they loudly proclaim otherwise,it'll be more like a 2011,2012 startup date.Doesn't matter which "genius" they choose to run this outfit,it's simply not going to happen.How can we "buy Canadian",when we can't even afford to keep a roof over our heads and food on the table?

To the realist. The buy American policy is much deeper than infrastructure. The policy infers "if it is made in America",and made competatively elsewhere, then buy American. My belief is that the underlying statement is to the auto industry. GM nears bankruptcy with more to follow. And since when are we,Canada to small to support our own industries. We're talking one fine paper mill in the entire country. Certainly we can could carry this one producer to a success story.

Good points...some accurate some not...

The whole USA direction is intended to restart manufacturing, of course in the USA, this can be a very positive element to the glory days of the 70s and 80s in Canadian paper.
The manufacturing facilities will need to "package" and display" their products... this means there will be a turn in the next 4 to 6 months for a need to attain the paper grades to convert into boxes and of course image pac products such as tide boxes or beer cases. I am an optimist and believe that S.F.P. will start and produce a quality product....which will be in demand again, label grades such as the wet strength and coated card stocks will again become a need to fuel the USA plan...

Come on people think about it, would the USA go to Asia to buy boxes if the need for packaging is in the newly developed manufacturing plants across the USA, The Canadian dollar will once again be a controlling factor in the demand for paper orders out of Canada... And for the comments about all the paper mills in the world shutting down... not true there are allot of small privately owned mills running at full capacity... Take Atlantic Packaging they are running at full tilt always, why....because they have a sound business plan a realistic union....

"would the USA go to Asia to buy boxes.."
Certainly they would,if it meant securing the Asian market for future trading partners.One hand washes the other,so the saying goes.The USA will wheel and deal where the biggest market is,and where it would be most favourable to them.Canada would probably rate behind countries like China and India,so "buy Canadian" is pretty much meaningless right now.Until the world economies improve,the mortgage and housing mess in the States is resolved,and folks have readily available credit to purchase goods,everything's at a standstill.With companies like GM laying off 1,200 employees,somehow I don't think outfits like SFP stands a snowballs chance in hell for longterm substainability.They're going to have to do what every other company is having to do--wait till the markets are better,which won't be happening for some time to come.

Well boys. What's the word. Don't you think you've stretched this out long enough. Time to crap or get off the pot. An announcement one way or the other as to the current Superior Fine Papers situation would be a courtesy to all ex employees and suppliers as to your intentions. People could move on with their lives if all is dead. Let them know.

Could we please have some sort of update on this situation? There are all sorts of rumours floating throughout the community - they have the money, they don't have the money, the mill is going to be scrapped, etc. As much as I would like to believe that Superior Fine Papers will be able to get the financing they need, I have grave doubts. But wouldn't it be better to get the news, even if it's bad, sooner rather than later?

i agree

The new rumor is they want to be up and running by June. Like the previous commentor said, let some word out as to your progress one way or the other. The mayor made some subtle comments a week ago, and the other rumor is that SFP has gotten some type of tax relief from the city until they get going. Wish someone from SFP would come forward and say SOMETHING.

What is the HHHHHHH......is going on!!
Can no one put these poor people out of
their misery and let their lives move on? Say something to the public or just
close the door, by the time if and when
you may get something running, these
ex employees will be long gone. They cannot wait forever as most of the U.I.C. benefits will run out soon or they have already.......Come on and
say something one way or another....

(1999) PC Gov Mike Harris introduced privitize power. Hydro rates for large consumers in N. ONT. are about double from southern ONT.

(Netnewsledger.com)Denis Lebel announced $1 billion over two years to help communities; more money and resources for Export Development Canada, to facilitate assistance for companies such as forestry companies,$8.3 billion for the Canada skills and transition strategy
-Not solving the problem with the high energy rate. Trying to get everyone out of the forestry sector.

If SFP can get the contract to make all the paper the US will need to print the bazzilions of dollars they're proposing to spend then you've got a chance. But I think we all know that's about as likely as me winning 6/49 tonight.

I agree with you all above...they need to make an announcement...my god enough is enough...this waiting and all the rumors are killing us all...i am so hoping that the mill gets up and going...this city needs some good news..with all the mill closures, and all the people with no work something good has to happen...please make an announcement...tell us what is happening....

Who is going to fund this place with all thats going on in the industry, from no government help to no market. If i were an ex employee, i'd be looking for a new career. Obviously this new company could care less about how you feel, with the way they are handling this whole thing with the public. Obviously this 35 million was phantom money.

Come on now....let's just get this over
with and let the people know what's going on....Obviously there will be no
start up soon and there has not been any
news of any kind so go ahead and let
people get on with their lives.

How can you put people thru this
emotinal mess??? Do you not know what this is doing to Thunder Bay families??

Get the news out there once and for all!

As life long residents of Thunder Bay and recalled to Superior Fine Paper, we too are concerned. Our hope is dying quickly and a unwanted move to another location is now on the horizon. With no news, the decision to say or go may have already been made for us by lack of action on the part of ownership to keep all concerned parties informed.

move on. Retrain, retire, move, etc... . Do anything but sit around waiting. You're wasting your life if you don't put it behind you. Do you want to be like the laid-off mill workers in BC still waiting for mills to reopen that closed years ago?

heat is stil on?someone is paying for it.hold on to your shorts.it will start up.

You remind me of the former mill-workers in Valemount BC and McBride BC. It's over! Move on!

Rumor has it the power is being shut off this month. I guess the end may be near. Might as well go west young man.

West might not be a good direction right now. Everything I've heard says capital flow has stopped. It'd be a shame if you moved out there and had to move right back.

Move back to what. Apparently from previous comments,the Abi-Bow mill here in Thunder Bay will be one of the first to go down. There will be a lot of unemployed workers scrambling for the few jobs available here at Wal-Mart and Home Depot. If west isn't the direction, then maybe north, south or east. What do you think?

There's a lot out there. In all directions there's mining, there's also paper mills that aren't going down, I'm sure it won't be that hard to find something. Betting on oil while people with $500,000 mortgages fight over the last bits of capital is a losing proposition.

The Alberta economy is set to shrink this year, and the government is set to post a massive deficit. When you've got all these people with lives they can't afford, I'd say things are going to get pretty ugly if this drags out much longer.

Any news out there in Thunder Bay ?

None

it has been 3 months wasn't it to be up and running in 3 weeks?

Latest rumor is they are selling off the machines to China.

What's with the Sinclair family and the rest of this so called group that purchased Thunder Bay Fine Papers. Who do these people think they are leaving the employees, suppliers and contractor's sitting around for 4 months with no announcement whatsoever. If the deal is DEAD, then say it. If you are still looking for financing ...say it. If you are scrapping the place...say it... say SOMETHING. There are peoples livelyhoods, suppliers and contractor's business's on the line and you guys sit there quiet as mice. Show some decency and let the public know whats going on. You sure appreciated the local political support in trying to steal it from the scrappers, now show respect back and let us know your intentions.

Wait a minute. Wasn't there a $32 million offer from another company to buy Thunder Bay Fine Papers for salvage? I thought that offer was rejected for the much much cheaper offer from the Superior Fine Papers group only because they would supposedly restart the mill. I'm sure the taxpayers might have got their money back if the bankruptcy receiver took the best offer. How much money will Sinclair's group pocket by selling the mill for salvage? How are they allowed to do that if the receiver already rejected the best offer because it was for salvage purposes only?

32 million for scrap are you sure ithink that number was much lower. Hey i think this group is trying and if they wanted to sell it for scrap that would of happened buy now? I have heard that they are still trying very hard. I wish them luck. Myself and my familly along with lots of people in this city hope and pray that they can work something out.

Lets face the facts.
The paper grades this mill can produce are simply completely oversold right now.
There are many paper machines in North America that are taking downtime for lack of orders, but this could change dramatically this fall if the U.S. economy gains steam.
It is no use trying to open this mill right now without a good order book, or they will be bankrupt permanently before Christmas.
Timing is everything when trying to restart this mill, and now is not the right time. Relax & Enjoy the long weekend.

This is a statement from NewPage.
Where does Superior Fine Papers expect to find customers..even if they start up.


“The first quarter continued to reflect the unprecedented decline in spending for advertising, particularly for those customers using print media. Demand for coated paper has declined more than 30% compared to last year and our customers – mostly printers, magazine and book publishers, and catalogers – continue to face similar pressures in their businesses,” said Mark A. Suwyn, NewPage executive chairman. “These challenges have been further exacerbated by our customers managing their cash flow by reducing their inventory levels. To balance supply with demand, we will take at least 300,000 tons of market-related downtime in the first half of 2009. This is in addition to the 1.1 million tons of capacity we shut down last year.

Yes the current market for coated fine paper grades remains very depressed, (as expected in the first half of this year) since it is so tied in to advertising and the amount of advertising is directly related to the the state of the economy.
Remember the large North American players in these coated fine paper grades (Newpage, Stora Enso and Domtar etc.) now operate almost excusively in the United States.
Superior Fine Papers is located in Canada very near to some large Kraft mills (great fiber source)and it's initial underfunded startup last year proved that all the technical elements are in place for a successful startup capable of efficiently producing a high quality product.
If the Canadian government would institute a "buy Canadian" policy preference, only a fraction of what they buy annually could keep the SFP mill in Thunder Bay busy all year.

Also, the more permanent mill closures the big players make down south, the more room there will be for a small Canadian competitor, once the U.S. & world economies recover.
As long as this mill has not been scrapped or damaged by winter, there is still a possibility that it may reopen, but only if quite a few critical factors lineup.
Besides sufficient orders, this mill will require a significant cash investment (at least $35 million according to company officials) to make it possible to reopen.
This is probably a far tougher hurdle to overcome than getting orders.

The availability of kraft to SFP may not be as easy as concerned visitor thinks. With the shutdowns happening all around us, and the Abi-Bow scenario, there may end up being zero kraft suppliers in the area. And concerned is exactly right...who wants to gamble 35 million on this place.

Once the massive federal forestry stimulus initiative kicks in there will be plenty of Kraft fiber and startup loan guarantees available to SFP.

Hopefully they will announce this program soon.

Don't you people get it. The economy is in the drain right now....and isn't coming back any time soon. The writing is on all four walls around you. Look at auto..oil..forestry...they are all hurting. Stimulus...so far the direction the government is spending forestry dollars is a joke. SFP might as well wait until the economy turns..which may be a few years before sinking another dollar into this place. Cascades bailed on it for a reason. No demand. Smart business spends advertising dollars here.....on the internet.

Massive stimulus. have i missed something. Is there some type of massive stimulus in the works...lol.

Any news on Superior Fine Papers start up?

bewildered you are !!!

"Cascades bailed on it for a reason. No demand."

WRONG!!!

Cascades bailed because of the energy costs ~ Go google it ... i'm sure you'll find it on the internet somewhere .....

Patti is correct.
The former Cascade mill (now SFP) faced very high natural gas & electricity costs, and since it was located in Ontario, these were some of the highest rates in North America.
It is not a coincidence that the Ontario liberals refusal to have a separate Northern Ontario power rate is one of the primary reasons why there has been so many permanent mill closures in Ontario.
Why should the (self sufficient) Ontario north region have to subsidize and pay the same imported peak power rates southern Ontario is paying to import power from New York state when the two power grids are almost completely separate from each other?

One of the best ways that the provincial & federal governments can provide stimulus to the forest products industry, is to offer grants & guaranteed loans to allow these operations to build thier own Bio-mass "Co-Gen" facilities.
Co-Gen facilities produce low cost steam & electricity, and excess electrical power can be sold back to the grid, thereby adding an important alternate revenue stream.

In Ontario, this revenue might be substantial once OPG finishes installing their VARIABLE RATE residential meters.
I refuse to call them the dumb name that OPG calls them, as the only thing smart about them is how big the pay bonus for OPG's CEO will be once the peak power money starts to flow in.

OPG has packaged these new VARIABLE METERS as being great for the environment, inorder to hood-wink the public into thinking this is going to help the environment by reducing polution, when all it really is going to do is moderately reduce peak power demand and save OPG billions of dollars in having to build new generating capacity.
Once Mr. & Mrs public starts getting up in the middle of the night to do laundry & cook their supper and their rates are hiked up to pay for the cost of installing all the new "smart" meters (likely hundreds of $millions) they will realize that they have been taken for a very big ride.

Now the (dirty coal fired) generating plants will just run more (& polute just as much) in the middle of the night.

OPG needs to forget about wasting money on replacing all the perfectly good residential meters already installed in Ontario & begin to invest in clean energy production like wind, solar and additional hydro production.

That way, no matter what time of day you buy power, you will actually be using clean power that will really make a difference to the environment.

The only way we can stop this wasteful spending and and big time cash grab by OPG is to make this a political issue heading into the next Ontario election.
Voters need to get informed and remember to vote for politicians that will take Ontario into the future with real improvements to environmental protection.

If energy costs are too high right now, then the mill was never meant to run. Energy is a tiny fraction of what it was before the recession was recognised.

I respect your right to express your opinion Jay, but where are you getting your information about energy now costing only a fraction of what it used to? Has Union Gas or OPG announced major price cuts for industrial users?
The current prices for gas & commodity electricity may be below the peak pricing levels of a year ago, but they have not dropped anywhere near as much as overall economic activity has.
If I am wrong about this than please provide the data to show that energy costs truly are now "a tiny fraction of what it once was".

You must have missed the point that adding a Co-Gen facility provides both steam (much less natural gas to purchase) and electricity to help run the plant. And excess power can be sold back to the grid thereby providing an alternate source of income to help with profitability (keep the doors open) even during economic downturns.

I do agree that energy costs are just one important piece of the puzzle if this or any mill is to reopen or we are to avoid any further permanent mill shutdowns in the Canadian paper industry.

I was not implying that the only thing stopping SFP from reopening tommorow was simply the lack of Co-Gen or reduced energy pricing deals.

I have no knowledge of what specifically is preventing this mill from reopening, but the addition of Co-Gen will significantly alter the viability of most paper mills, including this one.

I can guess that it may be a lack of financing / orders (obviously essential factors) or some other unknown reason, why this mill has not resumed production, but that would just be pure speculation.
Only a statement from the current ownership group would answer that question.

rumor has it the american investor has bailed out. no 35 million...no mill

File under unconfirmed or rumor ... but key personnel are being contacted as i type for a possible late summer start up.


we shall see .........

Many of the posts here are so misinformed it's pathetic.
Mcguinty and O.P.G. killed this plant and many others. I worked for Blowharder for 25 years. No pension, no severance. They made the rules up as things transpired. Never honoured an agreement. Gangsters ran my mill. Not the case at TBay Fines. Not even close. How do I know?
I now work in the print industry. Tbay Fines was the house supplier. Where do we now obtain our stock from?
U.S.A. and Europe. Not a single roll of coated or matte to be had anywhere in Canada.
There's a huge market for fine paper. Transcontinental and us as well hum through hundreds of thousands of tons a month. Looks like corporate America got their wish. Buy up our mills. Take the profits to re-invest down south. Then close shop here and take our orders with them. And we did not sleep on the papermachines. Many times I went home with blood in my workboots after a 12 hour shift. Legalized slavery. And watch the guys around me drop from cancer.
It was hell. Fortunately I survived.

For now.

I hear ya pal!.... u survived... so far anyway!.... but papermaking has a way of coming back & biting you in the ass just when you think you are retired!... But yeah! ... I hear ya!

Thanks to Blowharder and their local band of thieves (senior management). I will never get to retire. They stole my pension buyout. Weaver gets 4 million. Us Big Fat ZERO.
Looks like I'm working till I'm 70. Or death. With any luck death will come first.

correction there visitor... Weaver GETS 17.5 million.... he has already received 4 million, although he had to repay 1 million of that back to the company for a personal loan!.... Jeee! Perhaps we can all get one of them eh?....

& Yeah! .. we are hearing & seeing pension games here as well.... kinda funny when you request to know what your 'BUY OUT" is...(AS in ... i wanna leave... what do i get?)... & they refuse to tell you until you have already signed the papers saying that you are quitting!.... Hmmmm sounds kinda illegal to me!.... & I'm talking "Blowharder" as well!!

Did someone force you guys to work there?

IT WAS A MILL TOWN. That's what we did. We worked in a mill. There was little else.
You have nothing constructive to add to this thread?
Go away TROLL!

I see that the question hit a nerve...

Sorry, I don't buy that you had no choices. I'm sure that while you lived there, other people chose to not work at the mill or move away.

Just stating my opinion here just like anyone else is free to do.

Why the personel attack?
You obviously are very ignorant and have no clue when it comes to one industry towns.

And that's my opinion.

Yep! canada woodchuck... had lots of choices... when i was YOUNG! & that is a LONG time ago!This is not the first industry i have been involved in that went belly up!.... previous was a rig pig offshore on the oil rigs ( Trudeo era) after all of the incentives were gone... well so were we!.... had a choice then , trade school?(wrote tests & accepted) ... or 30 or 35 grand a year (at the time) & still being able to support my family!.... Jee what would you have chosen? so now where am i?.... really good question!! asking myslef that alot lately!... mid 40's no one wants to hire you.... 2 to 3 years before u get a trade... so say 47 / 48 ... couple years to work ur way up to journeyman...so say 50.... Hmmmmmm !.. put that against 25 years of faithful service & where are ya?.... seriously... tell me... oh wise one! .... u have all the answers, u tell me, should i say get the hell out & start again (for the 3'rd time).. or should i hang on to the bitter end & hope that we make it?.... cause the pros & cons are about equal as far as i can see!

Thank you Axel

I just didn't have the patience today to deal with some little snot nosed arrogant prick.
You pretty much described our situation to the letter.

It wasn't a personal attack, visitor. Axel and you were the ones attacking and blaming.

The answer to my question is important for each one of us, because it determines how much we are responsible for our lives and how much others are.

These are very difficult times for a lot of us and there are no easy answers. Blaming others is not helpful.

Sorry, but I do know a lot about one-industry towns.

canada..... u a politician?... cause u just said a big ol pile of nothin! & it is very obvious that u yourself have never had to deal with serious decisions regarding how to support your family & what would be a decision (moving, training , staying) that involves your whole family (if u even have one) ..... u seem to think it is such an easy decision! well if it is so for you , well all i can say is ... u are one lucky son of a bit&h , cause for most it is not!

& Contrary to what you just said... I have NOT attacked anyone... i have just told people out there how it actually is where i am! .. You can believe me , or you may choose not to... ur decision... but attacking?... Nope!... Informing?... Yep!

Axel, you're still young... Look at the positives. You have gained a lot of experience and specific knowledge about your industry. Maybe you could become a technical consultant and help other mills succeed? Maybe go into management and apply your knowledge?

Hmmmmmmmm!.....

Not the management type there Canada.... & actually that is not even an option anymore in my neck of the woods..... they are NOT interested in people who know how to run papermachines ( & there are far more at my location who know a hell of a lot more than i do!) ... but management?... never happen! & young? did you actually read what i wrote previously?.... 50 plus before you actually have a trade?.... they will be planting me in my coveralls!~& not give a damn.. i might add!

Nope.... choices are few.... make it where i am... or scoot... its all about the timing now!!

Axel, I'm not a politician. I've been where you are several times. One thing I've learned a long time ago is that you make your own luck and you are only a victim if you chose to be.

I don't expect the grouchy visitor to understand what I'm talking about...

Yup, I read what you wrote. You're still relatively young or should I say young enough.

25 to 30 years to make machine tender.
Run a half a billion dollar machine. Thats one hell of long apprenticeship.

Seems like one hell of a waste of time in hindsight.

Who knew Axel?
Who knew.

Yeah!... I hear ya visitor!.... Believe me... I hear ya!!

any word out from this group of professional bs'ers. It's now nearing August. This group is a fricken JOKE.

Rumors Rumors Rumors ...I've got dirt...Now please this is only a rumor , you know the kind ..I heard it from a guy who heard it from another guy who heard it from his dentist who heard it from his mailman type of thing! I heard that if the mill does not have the proper amount of orders in by the 6th of August that the investors are pulling the pin. Again it's just a rumor!!! Please don't believe a word of this rumor if you wish , I'm not sure I do ...or maybe I do ....well maybe not ...I'm not sure ;)

I guess after the recent tidbit about the mill everyone can move on with their lives at last. Elvis has left the building!

Wonder if the Superior Fine Papers group is going to turn the heat on.If you don't see heat...then i guess we all know this is a gauranteed dead horse. Wonder how the 35 million they said they had disappeared into thin air.

i cant believe anyone could think that superior fine papers would ever start up
...its nothin but a pile of junk that the scrap yards dont even want ..ekt was supposed to be involved but they have no money for it unless the government gives them some like before

The TBay mill will be down for the winter..."buttoning" it up as we speak;steam being shut off accordingly,moving management personel to Iroquoi Falls,lights being shut off!.So don't expect any re-start till April 2010..at the earliest!(hey maybe 5 more guys will be able to retire by that time!)

Unless your operation is a Kraft mill,"you" won't be starting up anytime soon.The money for the "green energy program" doesn't kick in till next year anyway and do you honestly think the print market is going gang busters right now...more like just going...BUST!

This whole "forestry conundrum" we are presently in is a survival of the fittest and a down sizing of the whole industry.Period!

Some people just need to move on with their life and get over this mill.

any recent new from the great ones at slippery fine papers. i hear they have some tiny little heaters running trying to keep the place from freezing up. good luck.